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post #16 of 75 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 2012, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Serena noches yet another RECORD!

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Originally Posted by dragonflies View Post
LOL, it's true what you said, winning a Slam facing match point( s) is certainly worse of an achievement than winning a Slam not dropping a set.


RVD is usually so excited to praise Serena at all cost, so he made a mistake as labeling this as a "record" as if Slam champions would have to try for more while it's obviously not that case. All champions would rather get to the victories not having to face match point(s).


However, this stats spoke about another vital aspect of Serena that not every champions have (ie Novotna, Kim, Kuzy, etc... to name a few) . That is the mental toughness and the ability to come back from the brink of defeat.



As Serena already has Slam victories while she won without dropping a set, this aspect would enhance Serena's dynamic range as a complete player. Serena saved most of her match points by calmly raised her games and hitting winners to get back into the match. Only a few Slam champions have been able to do that. Having match points against you in a big match under the eyes of millions people all over the world and thousands directly would have a big impact on the nerves and execution, so to be able to overcome that should be viewed as an accomplishment in term of showing your mental toughness.
* I didn't write the article.
* I applaud my fav whenever she achieves or accomplishes a record/feat.
* I am a fan of Serena's, so why would I not be excited/happy when such achievements are accomplished?
* I did not make the comparison, nor is the achievement an empty one (as you are attempting to imply).
* Why do you have a problem with my happiness of my fav's achievements to the point of writing complete crap?

If your fav achieves or accomplished something great, will you then criticize your fellow fans for being excited/happy?

You're VERY weird.

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post #17 of 75 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 2012, 08:17 PM
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Re: Serena noches yet another RECORD!

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Originally Posted by young_gunner913 View Post
It's more impressive from a dominance stand point but to be one point away from elimination and to fight back to win the match and go on to win the tournament is very impressive as well. And to do it repeatedly (sometimes in the same event) is pretty remarkable as well. If we can replay the tapes, Petrova & Peer both had Serena on the ropes in the 2007 Australian Open and that just made Serena even hungrier for the final where she gave us one of the most dominate displays of tennis that a grand slam final has ever seen in tennis history.
It's especially impressive in cases like 2005 AO against Devil, 2010 AO against Vika(not MP down, but 4-6 0-4 might as well be ) where Lordrena was playing pretty badly in the former, and straight up getting that ass whooped in the latter The way she dug deep against Satan, defying all logic and making the same exact shots she was missing for 2 hours, with the FH that landed her in such big trouble being the thing that saved her ass when push came to shove, or against Vika where she was being outplayed and about to be sent home in 5-10 minutes time, only to start shredding aces and return winners left right and center speak to her enormous willpower. In those matches she just decided that she wasn't going to lose, and regardless of how implausible it seemed, snatched victory from nowhere when her opponent was on paper doing everything better than her. That's something remarkable, that I haven't seen any other legend able to surpass

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post #18 of 75 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 2012, 09:02 PM
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Re: Serena noches yet another RECORD!

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Originally Posted by RVD View Post
* I didn't write the article.
* I applaud my fav whenever she achieves or accomplishes a record/feat.
* I am a fan of Serena's, so why would I not be excited/happy when such achievements are accomplished?
* I did not make the comparison, nor is the achievement an empty one (as you are attempting to imply).
* Why do you have a problem with my happiness of my fav's achievements to the point of writing complete crap?

If your fav achieves or accomplished something great, will you then criticize your fellow fans for being excited/happy?

You're VERY weird.





Serena is also my fav, so of course I am also excited when she achieves any remarkable accomplishment.


What I don't do is I don't get obsessed with her all the time and not being overexcited about her like some other fans. As anyone can see, I don't write "complete crap". Even in my post, there is only one sentence in that long post that you can be offended with and whether it's true or not, that's totally arguable and can be judged by others, not just by one or 2 posters.


I was well awared that you didn't write the article, but it was your words in the title that " Serena noches yet another RECORD!".




The capital word and the exclamation mark showed excitation, so I didn't lie.




The word " RECORD" is wrong. There's no argue about it. Record is a barrier that people want to break and set to make for other competitors to aim at and strive for more. This is not a record, just a stat that happened when putting Serena's Slams under a microscope. So while this stat shows an admirable trait of hers, it's not a fundamental part of a tennis match, so when players out there about to win their Slams, they can't and won't set themselves to break this " record" as they'd better to avoid getting into the situation. Therefore, your title is wrong and would allow other fan bases to come in and bash Serena as it already happened with Petronius.




Anyway, I am not someone that nitpicks over an usage of a word to start a fight, as this is after all a message board, especially with my fellow fans, so cheer up, . The key thing was the inaccuracy in your title that could cause misunderstanding and that could ( and already did) start unnecessary fight as I mentioned earlier.

Last edited by dragonflies; Dec 5th, 2012 at 12:53 AM.
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post #19 of 75 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 2012, 09:23 PM
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Re: Serena noches yet another RECORD!

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Originally Posted by Petronius View Post
LOL. Sorry, but if you have allowed your opponent to get as close as one point from winning the match, it usually means that you play pretty bad.
Agreed, that is one ridiculous record
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post #20 of 75 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 2012, 09:25 PM
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Re: Serena noches yet another RECORD!

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Originally Posted by Petronius View Post
LOL. Sorry, but if you have allowed your opponent to get as close as one point from winning the match, it usually means that you play pretty bad.

Just one unreturnable serve, one netcord or one lucky shot that clips the line and you lost, whether being a mental giant or not.

It's obviously far more impressive to win slams without facing any matchpoint or even setpoint at all.

But I understand that it's still a few weeks before the Australian swing starts.
I was kinda casually reading this thread because RVD posted in it, & as a Williams fan, we have to read all the threads posted by other fans. At least it was in my contract when I signed on to this message board. Also, it's about Serena Williams, so I figured it would probably bring out the extremists from both ends of the spectrum. She's the most popular tennis player ever and probably the best ever after all.

I then, saw this comment, Petronius. I haven't posted and read in GM in a while, so you may be new or posting under another anti-Williams troll name, but I can't agree with your comments. There are nameless amounts of matches where an opponent has been down one point from losing and the match was phenomenal on both ends. Until I know your M.O. around here regarding Serena Williams will I bother going into detail.

Serena has been down matchpoints and has gone on to win Slams without losing a set, so she's good on both counts.

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post #21 of 75 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 2012, 09:27 PM
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Re: Serena noches yet another RECORD!

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Originally Posted by dragonflies View Post
LOL, it's true what you said, winning a Slam facing match point( s) is certainly worse of an achievement than winning a Slam not dropping a set.

This is not necessarily true -no, not at all.

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post #22 of 75 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 2012, 09:30 PM
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Re: Serena noches yet another RECORD!

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Originally Posted by Pureracket View Post
This is not necessarily true -no, not at all.
Winning a slam without dropping a set (logically) makes one much better than winning a slam being on the verge of losing multiple times. So yes it is 100% true.
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post #23 of 75 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 2012, 09:49 PM
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Re: Serena noches yet another RECORD!

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Originally Posted by Dominic View Post
Winning a slam without dropping a set (logically) makes one much better than winning a slam being on the verge of losing multiple times. So yes it is 100% true.





While that's true winning a Slam in a dominant fashion is considered more impressive than winning a Slam saving match point(s), your attempt of discredit Serena's Slam wins won't be successful, since Serena has showed she was able to dominate Slams several times, so the "comeback", while it's not a record, only adding to legacy as an important and valuable traits of a Champion : mental toughness.





Just like every Slam win is different, you can't compare Serena's Slam win in modern days with Slam wins in the past where the competition was poor. Different fields, different difficulty in winning. The first ever Wimbledon winner just won a Slam in their backyard against a " circus of friends". You would bet they are not even to be qualifiers if they were competing in modern days. Just like you can't compare Slam wins with ITF wins nowadays.


Only if all the 4 Slams set up 7 robots ( at an increasing difficult levels after each round) there to play tennis where 7 robots has the same strength, the same tennis skills and smartness and players to win Slams have to beat the same 7 robots every time when they win Slams. Yes, only when it set up like that then you could compare and say all Slams are equal. Until then, as most knowledge people ( Evert, Jon Weitherm, Mc Enroe, Kim, Davenport, etc...) already conceded, Serena's Slam wins is second to none in term of achievements and greatness. ( I would take Jon W's words over lots of people, esp jealous posters here. Just read some of his column and asked yourself whether you are able to write that before calling him " Jon Worthless". )

Last edited by dragonflies; Dec 4th, 2012 at 10:44 PM.
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post #24 of 75 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 2012, 09:56 PM
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Re: Serena noches yet another RECORD!

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Originally Posted by Petronius View Post
LOL. Sorry, but if you have allowed your opponent to get as close as one point from winning the match, it usually means that you play pretty bad.
Any close match involves the opponent being one, two, three or perhaps five or six points from winning. Following? So according to your logic here, just based on this limited sentence you've strung together, we can generalise that close matches usually mean at least one person playing badly?

There are dozens of examples where that isn't the case. Serena's latest match point-saving feat in a slam at Wimbledon 2009 being a prime example.

You get so riled up whenever Serena gets praise, from whoever. Sad and weak from you.

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Originally Posted by Alla Luce View Post
(1)A lot is being made of the record Serena has vs Sharapova. It is being used as THE reason she will win again lol. Good thing we have players like Tomas Berdych (who had an even worse record vs Nadal) to remind us of the fallacy of this nonsense logic.
(2)You stans may as well sleep well tonight because tomorrow the a replay of Lucie's winning moment over and over again will haunt your dreams for weeks to come
(3)The stars have aligned perfectly for the upset of the 21st century. All the best Garbine
(4) There is no path to victory for Williams.Keys wins in straight easy sets.
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post #25 of 75 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 2012, 10:01 PM
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Re: Serena noches yet another RECORD!

well, since Serena shares the record with most majors won without losing a set..I guess it balances out. She can win it dominating, she can tough it out..

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post #26 of 75 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 2012, 10:04 PM
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Re: Serena noches yet another RECORD!

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Originally Posted by dragonflies View Post
LOL, it's true what you said, winning a Slam facing match point( s) is certainly worse of an achievement than winning a Slam not dropping a set.
I wouldn't say so. How can you objectively say that Serena's feat of winning Wimbledon in 2010 or the US Open in 2008 is a greater achievement than completing the Serena Slam with the Australian Open in 2003. Your assertion automatically deprives the feat of winning a slam saving match point of any situational context whatsoever and assumes utter and unabashed dominance is always the most desirable and laudable outcome in sport. It isn't. Sometimes given the pressures, confidence and form of your opponent, the way you happen to be striking the ball on a given day you can't expect to come out and flatten them - not every time. Martina Navratilova said that what counts isn't that you can win when you're playing well, but when you're playing badly. This is actually what defines being a champion more than anything else. Continuing to prove yourself in all manner of match-contexts.

Surely any fan of Serena would devote time and analytical capacity to going into the specifics, the pressures a player might have faced in a given slam, on a given day, that affected form and performance rather than chiding other fans, getting into disputes over the verbal definitions and worrying about what insecure Serena haters will say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alla Luce View Post
(1)A lot is being made of the record Serena has vs Sharapova. It is being used as THE reason she will win again lol. Good thing we have players like Tomas Berdych (who had an even worse record vs Nadal) to remind us of the fallacy of this nonsense logic.
(2)You stans may as well sleep well tonight because tomorrow the a replay of Lucie's winning moment over and over again will haunt your dreams for weeks to come
(3)The stars have aligned perfectly for the upset of the 21st century. All the best Garbine
(4) There is no path to victory for Williams.Keys wins in straight easy sets.

Last edited by Olórin; Dec 4th, 2012 at 10:12 PM.
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post #27 of 75 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 2012, 10:14 PM
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Re: Serena noches yet another RECORD!

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Originally Posted by TNT2009 View Post
Clearly Serena has tougher mentally than Margaret. She proved it so many times. I don't know how much she came back from the dead but surely noone will ever touch this record.
I think Serena did amazing comeback from dead, but overall i think Seles comaback was a little bit more impressive (I don't talk about the results) cause Serena knew what she could do on the court and what she couldn't and if she knew she could die or something she wouldn't take risk. As for Seles it was tougher mentally cause the main problem was in her head. I'm sure she was like: "What if that will happen again". I personally wouldn't be able to concetrate on a ball after something like that, knowing that there could be around some crazy person to stabb me again.
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post #28 of 75 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 2012, 10:17 PM
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Re: Serena noches yet another RECORD!

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I wouldn't say so.
What's a more difficult and impressive feat? Winning, crushing everybody, Or winning, struggling against everybody? Enough said.
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post #29 of 75 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 2012, 10:21 PM
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Re: Serena noches yet another RECORD!

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post #30 of 75 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 2012, 10:21 PM
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Re: Serena noches yet another RECORD!

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Originally Posted by bandabou View Post
well, since Serena shares the record with most majors won without losing a set..I guess it balances out. She can win it dominating, she can tough it out..
Though she doesn't share the record, I agree that it's worth pointing out that with 4 majors won without dropping a set she is only behind Martina(6) and Steffi/Chrissy(5) with huge chance to join the the latter as early as next year, especially if her serve and mental toughness are clicking at Wimbledon.

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