Better Grass Court Player: Venus vs Serena - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 17th, 2012, 11:49 PM Thread Starter
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Better Grass Court Player: Venus vs Serena

Venus:
5 Wimbledon Titles, 3 Finals, 3 Quarterfinals
Wimbledon Record: 71-11 86.6%
Notable Opposition Beat: Hingis, Davenport (x2), Dementieva (x1), Henin (x1), Clijsters (x1), Sharapova (x2), Kuznetsova (x1), Serena (x2)
Notable Mathces: def. Hingis (6-3 4-6 6-4, 2000) def. Sharapova (7-6 6-1, 2005) def. Davenport (4-6 7-6 9-7, 2005) def. Safina (6-1 6-0, 2009) def. Date-Krumm (6-7 6-3 8-6, 2011)

Serena:
5 Wimbledon Titles, 2 Finals, 1 Semifinal, 2 Quarterfinals
Wimbledon Record: 67-8 89.3%
Notable Opposition Beat: Venus (x3), Dementieva (x1), Azarenka (x2), Henin (x1), Capriati (x1), Sharapova (x1), Kvitova (x2), Mauresemo (x2)
Notablee Mathces: def. Henin (6-3 6-3, 2003) def. Marusemo (6-7 7-6 6-3, 2004) def. Hantuchova (6-2 6-7 6-2, 2007) def. Dementieva (6-7 7-5 8-6, 2009) def. Kvitova (6-4 7-5, 2012)
Olympic Gold on grass

Head to Head on Grass: 3-2 (3-1 in finals)

I think Venus wins this one. She beat tougher opposition, and dismantled many of them, including Sharapova (twice), and Safina.
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 2012, 12:02 AM
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Re: Better Grass Court Player: Venus vs Serena

I give it to Serena since she owns Venus in Wimbledon finals 3-1, and leads her 3-2 overall at Wimbledon. In any case Serena is likely to win again this coming year and make it a non debate. Can anyone seriously make a case for Venus once Serena has more Wimbledon titles playing in exactly the same era, in addition to a winning record vs her sister at the event.

As for tough competition:

2000- Tough draw and competition this year I agree.

2001- beating Davenport in the midst of her non contending period and a nowhere near prime Henin on her worst surface isnt great competition in anyway, and both still took her to 3 sets.

2005- Tough draw and competition this year I agree.

2007- Easy draw, definitely not tough competition.

2008- Except for Serena in final, easy draw with no tough opponents really.


I wouldnt say Serena had less competition. Serena had very tough draws to the title in 2002 and 2003. On paper Dementieva isnt that tough in the 09 semis but she played an amazing match, probably the match of her life, and then of course Venus in the final. 2010 and 2012 are easy, but overall Serena had no more or no less easy or tough draws than Venus.
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 2012, 12:17 AM
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Re: Better Grass Court Player: Venus vs Serena

Serena, just for the simple fact that her game is a more dominant force on the surface. As demonstrated at the Olympics, and she probably has one or two wimbledons left in her. I hope Venus has one more W left in her but with the illness, I'm not sure.

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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 2012, 12:38 AM
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Re: Better Grass Court Player: Venus vs Serena

Quote:
Originally Posted by forehand27 View Post
2007- Easy draw, definitely not tough competition.

2008- Except for Serena in final, easy draw with no tough opponents really.
How can you say that draw was easy. For that year 2007 she beat almost all the top players except Henin the one that didn't make it to her.

Venus was seeded 23rd and played maria in the round of 16 and had to play 4 straight days more than any of the other players had to that tournament and she still didn't lose a set the last 4 matches beating Kunetsova and Ivanovic


Only thing Serena has over Venus at Wimbledon is mental and thats why she is 3-2 vs Venus there. the one match Venus playted well is 2008 and after she took everything Serena had and still sent it back thats what really frustrated Serena that match just like Venus withstood every one's best at Wimbledon.

After those 2008 matches Wimbledon and the US Open (even though Venus lost) I witnessed how Venus had the game to take it to Serena unlike any other woman on the women's tour but it is all mental.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 2012, 12:40 AM
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Re: Better Grass Court Player: Venus vs Serena

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How can you say that draw was easy. For that year 2007 she beat almost all the top players except Henin the one that didn't make it to her.
Pretty simple. I dont consider any of Kuznetsova, Ivanovic, or Bartoli top opponents on grass period. The idea of Kuznetsova or Ivanovic ever coming close to a Wimbledon title would always have been laughable, and the idea of Bartoli winning a slam anywhere would always be laughable. No top player would struggle with Kuznetsova or Ivanovic on grass, even Henin or Clijsters who arent great grass courters would have a very easy time. As for Bartoli, yes she beat Henin but that was just a super bad loss and performance by Henin, not to mention a huge fluke type upset, it doesnt suddenly make Bartoli this great player. Only Sharapova in the round of 16 as a somewhat tough opponent.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 2012, 12:41 AM
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Re: Better Grass Court Player: Venus vs Serena

is this a joke, serena is the better player whose game translate on all surfaces (except on clay but that's because of her sloppy movement and not her game). venus has the more suited grasscourt game though.

venus is the better "grass court player" in the sense that her game, and mentality and point construction is most suited to grasscourt compared to rena's

edit: ps soz for totes sounding like a bitch with "is this a joke", not in a good mood atm

sharapova barty dokic duval hingis lisicki pliskovas robson venus
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 2012, 01:01 AM
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Re: Better Grass Court Player: Venus vs Serena

The score on the Henin Match 03 for Serena is wrong.

I am not conceited, I am just convinced
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 2012, 01:14 AM
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Re: Better Grass Court Player: Venus vs Serena

serena

she beat venus and took over wimbledon
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 2012, 01:17 AM
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Re: Better Grass Court Player: Venus vs Serena

Serena, much more allround game also on grass.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 2012, 01:20 AM
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Re: Better Grass Court Player: Venus vs Serena

^Serena has taken over Wimbledon only because Sjogrens has taken over Venus. Yeah, I said it, what you gonna do about it?


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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 2012, 01:20 AM
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Re: Better Grass Court Player: Venus vs Serena

Here's my "cop out"...

Venus is the better "Grass Court" Player

But Serena is the better "Tennis Player"

Chris Evert is the better "Clay Court" Player but I like Serena's chances against her on Clay...in fact I like Serena's chances against anyone on any surface...anytime...if she's committed to the win.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 2012, 01:24 AM
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Re: Better Grass Court Player: Venus vs Serena

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uranium View Post
^Serena has taken over Wimbledon only because Sjogrens has taken over Venus. Yeah, I said it, what you gonna do about it?
I would be willing to go along with that except for the fact Serena won back to back Wimbledons, beating Venus in back to back finals in 2002-2003, before there was any Sjogrens.

I do rate both in the top 4 all time on grass along with Graf, Navratilova, Venus, and Serena. If Serena wins another Wimbledon though she will move to #2 on my list behind Graf, and if she wins another 2 Wimbledons she would move to my grass court GOAT. Same goes for Venus, but obviously less likely to happen for her at this stage unfortunately.
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 2012, 01:26 AM
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Re: Better Grass Court Player: Venus vs Serena

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Originally Posted by forehand27 View Post
I give it to Serena since she owns Venus in Wimbledon finals 3-1, and leads her 3-2 overall at Wimbledon. In any case Serena is likely to win again this coming year and make it a non debate. Can anyone seriously make a case for Venus once Serena has more Wimbledon titles playing in exactly the same era, in addition to a winning record vs her sister at the event.

As for tough competition:

2000- Tough draw and competition this year I agree.

2001- beating Davenport in the midst of her non contending period and a nowhere near prime Henin on her worst surface isnt great competition in anyway, and both still took her to 3 sets.

2005- Tough draw and competition this year I agree.

2007- Easy draw, definitely not tough competition.

2008- Except for Serena in final, easy draw with no tough opponents really.


I wouldnt say Serena had less competition. Serena had very tough draws to the title in 2002 and 2003. On paper Dementieva isnt that tough in the 09 semis but she played an amazing match, probably the match of her life, and then of course Venus in the final. 2010 and 2012 are easy, but overall Serena had no more or no less easy or tough draws than Venus.
The bold comments are comical. Lindsay is not a tough draw and yet she ended 2001 as the #1 player. 2007 was not a tough draw despite Venus playing Maria, Sveta, and Ana. Sveta played great in that match btw.
Serena had tough draws in 2002 and 2003. Get the fuck out of here 2002 she only had Venus, similar to your 2008 comment. Very tough 2002 draw 2003 was tough.
You have the balls to call 2007 easy while you call Serena's 2002 tough.


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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 2012, 01:27 AM
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Re: Better Grass Court Player: Venus vs Serena

Venus is such a natural grass court player. Her game was made for grass. Her transition game and movement on the surface is better. Serena's mental strength was got her wins again Venus on this surface.
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 2012, 01:28 AM
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Re: Better Grass Court Player: Venus vs Serena

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uranium View Post
^Serena has taken over Wimbledon only because Sjogrens has taken over Venus. Yeah, I said it, what you gonna do about it?
i am going to point you to the wimbledon finals where serena beat venus

venus is a great grass court player, one of the greats of wimbledon, certainly far better than sharapova can ever hope to be

but serena is better than her on grass, if you take it as one match up, head to head
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