Peak Henin vs peak Venus - Page 2 - TennisForum.com
View Poll Results: Peak Henin vs peak Venus
Henin wins on all surfaces including grass (aka delusional Henintards) 2 1.74%
Venus wins on all surfaces including clay (aka delusional Venustards) 14 12.17%
Henin wins on all but grass 22 19.13%
Venus wins on all but clay 57 49.57%
They split depending on the surfaces (Henin indoors, rebound ace, clay, Venus grass and medium to fast outdoor courts) 20 17.39%
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post #16 of 89 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 2012, 07:16 PM
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Re: Peak Henin vs peak Venus

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Originally Posted by sweetadri06 View Post
Venus wins everywhere except clay. Apparently Justine was more intimidated by Venus than Serena.
That's difficult to know, because most of their matches were in the era that Venus was the one to beat.
With Serena was a more classic rivaldry with a lot of matches in different periods and surfaces (and it's a pity there weren't more GS finals between them).
But watching the matches on 2007 US Open maybe Venus game was more challenging to Justine, but of course, she played Serena a lot more, so maybe she is simply more used to her game than his sister's game
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post #17 of 89 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 2012, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Peak Henin vs peak Venus

Henin though claimed to be scared of Venus and why she lost or tanked to Bartoli at Wimbledon 2007. Who knows if that is really true or not, or she just made up some BS story to excuse her humiliating loss to some fat ice cream girl who at her career peak and totally dominating the game that year she should have beaten 6-0, 6-0 and allowed 2 winners like she did at the WTA Championships later that year, but that is what she said.
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post #18 of 89 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 2012, 07:27 PM
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Re: Peak Henin vs peak Venus

Justine had no confidence against Venus on grass , so easy win for Venus. 2007 USO was her peak Slam performance overall but she has played any number of individual matches at a far higher level than she showed there, so it was not necessarily Jesustine there. I feel Venus needs a fast court way more than Justine needs a slow one, so I will say easy win for Venus on grass with 1 tight set, easy win for Justine on clay, tight 3-set win for Venus on fast hard, routine but entertaining win like 6-4, 6-4 for Justine on slow hard (the prevalent surface on tour).
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post #19 of 89 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 2012, 07:45 PM
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Re: Peak Henin vs peak Venus

Venus has been one of the main victims of the continual slowing of courts in tennis. Even though her 2003 Australian Open form would probably beat Peak Henin I give Henin the advantage on slow hard. She would have time to retrieve Venus' flat strokes and pressure the Venus FH until it breaks down.

Venus comfortably on grass and Henin comfortably on clay, a no-brainer.

Peak Venus was scary good on fast hard courts. The match against Hingis in Munich shows how overpowering Venus's flat strokes are on a fast surface. Justine was very good on fast hard too, but she would simply be overpowered by peak Venus on this surface.
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post #20 of 89 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 2012, 07:50 PM
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Re: Peak Henin vs peak Venus

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Originally Posted by Queen_Vee_92 View Post
Venus on fast hard courts and and certainly grass.

Henin on slow hard courts and certainly clay.

No debate really neeeded for clay and grass, as they are the 2 exceptional players on their surface this generation.

fast hard courts suit Venus' game perfectly and she was practically unstoppable there in her peak years bar Serena in PeakRena form. In 07, Venus played an exceptional match against Justine whilst appearing drained, and made it tight in what i consider to be the best overall match Justine played on a hardcourt against a top player, so i think on a US open like court 00/01 Venus beats 07 Henin with pure aggression.

slow hard courts we never really got this between them. The Aus Open 03 match was peak Venus on rebound ace, again probably her best match on the surface in her career, and Justine was a little short of the grand slam winning mental giant phase. In all likelihood Justine would've bested her more peak for peak on this kind of surface where she could frustrate Venus more and no doubt Venus' technique would've come to let her down as it has so often on a slow ass HC.

the most even question of who is better really. Both are tied for slams, both have opposite games that favour different scenarios and courts. Would absolutely have loved to see peak these two face on a hard court would be such a battle. The only thing that leans me more to Vee as a better peak player than Henin is the eras. Justine's dominance was in a weaker time than Venus' where there were 3 or 4 absolutely class players playing brilliant tennis.
Serena > Venus on grass. Other than that, solid post.
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post #21 of 89 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 2012, 09:22 PM
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Re: Peak Henin vs peak Venus

There have been a few good assessments of this matchup. I think this is one that drastically depends on the surface because of the style of play both use. Fast suits Venus and slowing the surface gives Justine a chance. On clay Henin wins maybe not easily but she wins, and on grass Henin would try to keep it close but Venus would win that one. If AO 2003 was peak Venus on a slow HC then I think she has the edge over Henin on everything but clay. Justine is a great player but I will always say when Venus is at her best she's serving big, hitting big groundstokes, and finishing points at the net. If Venus is playing like that even Serena would have trouble beating her so I have to assume the same for Justine.
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post #22 of 89 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 2012, 09:24 PM
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Re: Peak Henin vs peak Venus

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Originally Posted by jj74 View Post
It's curious becuase that's a match that never happened on wta. Most of their matches were when Venus was a dominant force and Henin was simply a rising star. And the last one was Henin in one of her best moments but Venus far from her peak.

That would be a interesting match for sure, not only for the quality of the players but for the contrast of styles too
Venus was NOT far from her peak in the 07 USO semi final match. Venus won Wimbledon that year and was playing very well at the USO. True, Venus since 04 could beat anyone on a given day, then lose to a lesser players the next day. Still there is little doubt that Venus would have the edge on grass, Justine on clay. Slow hard, slight edge to Justine, fast hard slight edge to Venus.
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post #23 of 89 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 2012, 09:33 PM
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Re: Peak Henin vs peak Venus

I think that peak Henin would win in all except grass and fast indoors, I'd give her a 60/40 edge over peak Venus on hardcourts

The belief that man is an irresolute creature pulled this way and that by two forces of equal strength, alternately winning and losing the battle for his soul; the conviction that human life is nothing more than an uncertain struggle between heaven and hell; the faith in two opposed entities, Satan and Christ - all this was bound to engender those internal discords in which the mind, excited by the incessant fighting, stimulated as it were by the constant promises and threats, ends up by giving in and prostitutes itself to whichever of the two combatants has been more obstinate in its pursuit. Life isn't black and white, it's gold.
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post #24 of 89 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 2012, 09:41 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Peak Henin vs peak Venus

Why do people think indoors would help Venus. Venus doesnt even play let alone win much indoors. Venus's best surface outside of grass is various form and speeds of decturf outdoor hards, medium or fast.
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post #25 of 89 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 2012, 09:49 PM
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Re: Peak Henin vs peak Venus

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Originally Posted by forehand27 View Post
Why do people think indoors would help Venus. Venus doesnt even play let alone win much indoors. Venus's best surface outside of grass is various form and speeds of decturf outdoor hards, medium or fast.
Yeah but she definitely was better than Henin indoors

The belief that man is an irresolute creature pulled this way and that by two forces of equal strength, alternately winning and losing the battle for his soul; the conviction that human life is nothing more than an uncertain struggle between heaven and hell; the faith in two opposed entities, Satan and Christ - all this was bound to engender those internal discords in which the mind, excited by the incessant fighting, stimulated as it were by the constant promises and threats, ends up by giving in and prostitutes itself to whichever of the two combatants has been more obstinate in its pursuit. Life isn't black and white, it's gold.
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post #26 of 89 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 2012, 10:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Peak Henin vs peak Venus

Werent the 2 WTA Championships back to back Henin won indoors? I would have to check the stats but I am pretty sure Henin played more and won more indoors than Venus did. I dont even know what one would consider peak Venus indoors. At her peak in 2000-2002 she either barely played or did nothing after the U.S Open which is the main indoor season, and her only WTA Championship title was in 2008, years past her prime.
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post #27 of 89 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 2012, 10:54 PM
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Re: Peak Henin vs peak Venus

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Originally Posted by forehand27 View Post
Werent the 2 WTA Championships back to back Henin won indoors? I would have to check the stats but I am pretty sure Henin played more and won more indoors than Venus did. I dont even know what one would consider peak Venus indoors. At her peak in 2000-2002 she either barely played or did nothing after the U.S Open which is the main indoor season, and her only WTA Championship title was in 2008, years past her prime.
From Wikipedia: JH 37-15 career win-loss on carpet (71%)
VW 50-17 career win-loss on carpet (75%)
so not a massive difference. Of course, I am not sure indoors and carpet are equivalent here (I remember Venus lost to Jankovic in 2008 Stuttgart but she is shown as not having played indoors in 2008.

Also, WTA Championships in 2008 were outdoors.
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post #28 of 89 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 2012, 10:59 PM
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Re: Peak Henin vs peak Venus

Justine wins everywhere but grass.
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post #29 of 89 (permalink) Old Nov 16th, 2012, 12:23 AM
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Re: Peak Henin vs peak Venus

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Originally Posted by n1_and_uh_noone View Post
From Wikipedia: JH 37-15 career win-loss on carpet (71%)
VW 50-17 career win-loss on carpet (75%)
so not a massive difference. Of course, I am not sure indoors and carpet are equivalent here (I remember Venus lost to Jankovic in 2008 Stuttgart but she is shown as not having played indoors in 2008.

Also, WTA Championships in 2008 were outdoors.
I didn't know they were outdoors in 2008. Thanks.

Let them eat cake.
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post #30 of 89 (permalink) Old Nov 16th, 2012, 12:24 AM
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Re: Peak Henin vs peak Venus

Peak Venus was so confident with her serve, groundies, and movement. All but clay.
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