'Journey Women' who became top players for a brief period before returning to norm? - Page 8 - TennisForum.com
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post #106 of 142 (permalink) Old Oct 1st, 2012, 04:07 AM
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Re: 'Journey Women' who became top players for a brief period before returning to nor

Yeah, I think Jankovic isn't a journeywoman. She looks like one during her struggle but the fact is, she is too successful to be measured as mere journeywoman. And she's still No. 24, which is not bad.

Still not sure with Dokic... Like JJ, she's reduced to a journeywoman during her struggle until AO 2009, and then back to a mere journeywoman again. It's odd. Once a grand slam caliber but then playing small tourneys and even challengers. They say form is temporary but class is permanent.
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post #107 of 142 (permalink) Old Oct 1st, 2012, 05:45 AM
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Re: 'Journey Women' who became top players for a brief period before returning to nor

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Peer and Birnerova have never played each other
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Eva did epic choke against Goerges in 2R (from 61 51 to 61 57 02 ret. ), what allowed Julia to beat Peer in 3R. And I'm almost sure that Eva wouldn't win against Shahar, if she would have play her

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post #108 of 142 (permalink) Old Oct 1st, 2012, 06:35 AM
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Re: 'Journey Women' who became top players for a brief period before returning to nor

Maureen Drake. Was not known very much and played mostly low tier and ITF events. All of a sudden made the 4th round at the Australian Open in 1999, and then the third round of Wimbledon the same year (became the first player to take a set off Venus in the tournament) and got into the top 50. Then got injured and returned to obscurity.
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post #109 of 142 (permalink) Old Oct 1st, 2012, 06:55 AM
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Re: 'Journey Women' who became top players for a brief period before returning to nor

Renee Richards.
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post #110 of 142 (permalink) Old Oct 1st, 2012, 07:29 AM
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Re: 'Journey Women' who became top players for a brief period before returning to nor

Some of you, including the thread starter, are mentioning players that never made it to 'top player' status.

Unless we're calling a brief foray into the top 30-40 as the marks of a top player.
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post #111 of 142 (permalink) Old Oct 1st, 2012, 09:10 AM
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Re: 'Journey Women' who became top players for a brief period before returning to nor

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stop it
You'll just have to face the fact that her current shit level is her normal one, no more fluke runs for her to inflate her ranking.

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post #112 of 142 (permalink) Old Oct 1st, 2012, 09:17 AM
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Re: 'Journey Women' who became top players for a brief period before returning to nor

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I'm pretty sure a significant percentage of TF posters do think that.
I think that would be a pretty ridiculous thing to think. I'd see a journeywoman as someone plodding along through the lower WTA events, ITF events, always being R1 or R2 cannon fodder in slams, and just barely scraping by in regards making money to continue. Sugiyama had a top career in both singles and doubles, to think of her as a journeywoman when she clearly had a far better career than the vast majority of players is absolutely crazy. People mightnt want to respect her game but she was a great player.

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post #113 of 142 (permalink) Old Oct 1st, 2012, 10:13 AM
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Re: 'Journey Women' who became top players for a brief period before returning to nor

Has anyone mentioned Likhovtseva here?

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post #114 of 142 (permalink) Old Oct 1st, 2012, 10:51 AM
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Re: 'Journey Women' who became top players for a brief period before returning to nor

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Originally Posted by TS View Post
Some of you, including the thread starter, are mentioning players that never made it to 'top player' status.

Unless we're calling a brief foray into the top 30-40 as the marks of a top player.
Exactly, it works both ways. For some of the people getting haughty about others' definitions of journey women, I find their ideas of "top players" laughable and failing to deduce the "subtleties of language". How can someone be a top player if they never made it the top 16, were never seeded to reach the last 8 of a tier one. Laughable stuff all round.

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post #115 of 142 (permalink) Old Oct 2nd, 2012, 03:15 AM
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Re: 'Journey Women' who became top players for a brief period before returning to nor

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Originally Posted by TS View Post
Some of you, including the thread starter, are mentioning players that never made it to 'top player' status.

Unless we're calling a brief foray into the top 30-40 as the marks of a top player.
This.
The OP should have said what exactly is a "top player" according to him... top 20? top 10?
And it comes as no surprise that most of the drop-offs after those peaks are injury-related.
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Peer.

Birnerova saved WTA from her Top 10 position
You're usually above such nonsense
To even mention a player who spent nearly half of her pro-career in the top 20 (and 90% of it in the top 40) as "a journeywoman" is ridiculous.

The whole "saving the WTA from *** making the top 100/50/20/10/5/1" is childish (or should I say, very GM), but if you must, Peer "saved" herself, and if you really want to give credit to somebody else, anyone who follows Shahar's career knows the credit from saving TF from the apocalypse should go to Pablo Giacopelli's fiancée.

If any Israeli player fits the bill, maybe it's Smashnova with her top-20 tenure in 2002/03.
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post #116 of 142 (permalink) Old Oct 2nd, 2012, 02:38 PM
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Cool Re: 'Journey Women' who became top players for a brief period before returning to nor

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post #117 of 142 (permalink) Old Oct 2nd, 2012, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 'Journey Women' who became top players for a brief period before returning to nor

Quote:
Originally Posted by TS View Post
Some of you, including the thread starter, are mentioning players that never made it to 'top player' status.

Unless we're calling a brief foray into the top 30-40 as the marks of a top player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olórin View Post
Exactly, it works both ways. For some of the people getting haughty about others' definitions of journey women, I find their ideas of "top players" laughable and failing to deduce the "subtleties of language". How can someone be a top player if they never made it the top 16, were never seeded to reach the last 8 of a tier one. Laughable stuff all round.
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Originally Posted by Archer16 View Post
This.
The OP should have said what exactly is a "top player" according to him... top 20? top 10?
And it comes as no surprise that most of the drop-offs after those peaks are injury-related.

You're usually above such nonsense
To even mention a player who spent nearly half of her pro-career in the top 20 (and 90% of it in the top 40) as "a journeywoman" is ridiculous.

The whole "saving the WTA from *** making the top 100/50/20/10/5/1" is childish (or should I say, very GM), but if you must, Peer "saved" herself, and if you really want to give credit to somebody else, anyone who follows Shahar's career knows the credit from saving TF from the apocalypse should go to Pablo Giacopelli's fiancée.

If any Israeli player fits the bill, maybe it's Smashnova with her top-20 tenure in 2002/03.
I (the OP) have clearly stated at least twice in this thread what i criteria was. Now i know this thread has gone in a horrible direction and many posters can't seem to grasp the concept but......the reason these women are considered 'top players' is because they are going from the lower levels in the rankings/ITFs & Challenegers to being amongst the best 20/30 players in the world and being SEEDED in the GS MD's, to me and my OP, that IS a top player as well as the point of my thread.

It's a bit ironic how the people that think they are reading between the lines actually can't even read between the lines.

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post #118 of 142 (permalink) Old Oct 2nd, 2012, 03:17 PM
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Re: 'Journey Women' who became top players for a brief period before returning to nor

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Can we keep Chakvetadze and Cornet out of this ???

They are not same case, like Martina Muler, or Urszula Radwanska...
Ula next to Muler ... WTF ???


for me definetely Yakimova ...and Oudin + Cornet ... this 3 players is just
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post #119 of 142 (permalink) Old Oct 2nd, 2012, 03:40 PM
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Re: 'Journey Women' who became top players for a brief period before returning to nor

I guess this is an even more subjective thread than all the asinine discussions on "GOAT" due to having a larger pool of candidates. However one inherent flaw in the discussion would be the different definitions in the "Top" status.

While I think being seeded in a GS is a good indication that in the previous 52 weeks you performed at a higher level than a bigger percentage of the our ... I think that for the purpose of this discussion having a more stringent criteria would be beneficial.

The other thing would be for individuals to keep in mind perspective. A player whose career only extends 5 years ... well ... I don't think they've been in the tour long enough to be sifted from the over-achiever/under-achiever/flame-out piles. If you were to look at ladies with careers of 10 or more years then you're in business to better assess if they "short peak" and eventual downfall was a flash in the pan or an injury related decline.

just my thoughts i guess.

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post #120 of 142 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 2012, 01:34 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 'Journey Women' who became top players for a brief period before returning to nor

I hate to say it and though it isn't as extreme as others.... Shuai Peng

Despite bursting on the tour in 2001 she didn't play her first major until 2004, then in 2005 she looked to be the next big thing( some good runs and the only player to defeat Kim during her awesome summer HC 2005 run) but quickly plateued and from 2006-2010 she was a solid 40-70 range player. Then suddenly in 2011 she becomes a top 15 player, had failed to make it beyond the 3rd of her first 21 majors yet she makes the Rd16 of 3/4 , has 53 wins,has 5 top 10 wins and made 5 SF's!!! Now in 2012 she seems to be back to her normal,solid, self.

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