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post #91 of 326 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 2012, 08:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

Question:

Comparing Hingis before retirement and Hingis after her comeback, I saw she tried to play a more Big Babe, ball bashing type of tennis. Do you think had she stuck with her original, natural way of play she could of been top five and come closer to fulfilling her potential ?
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post #92 of 326 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 2012, 08:14 PM
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

All the usual suspects are already here

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post #93 of 326 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 2012, 08:14 PM
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

People are using the lack of competition argument.. really? I guess we can put an asterisk next to Serena and Clijsters as well.

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When will you learn that "pushers" never make it past the club level, let alone #1 on the WTA computer? Will it be too late?
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post #94 of 326 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 2012, 08:14 PM
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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I can't think of a more overrated lessor than Hingis. She is the ultimate. Stay mad Smitten.
How Hingis leases her property is her own business, but I think it's true that, in the real world, people are more realistic about her.
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post #95 of 326 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 2012, 08:20 PM
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by SV_Fan View Post
Question:

Comparing Hingis before retirement and Hingis after her comeback, I saw she tried to play a more Big Babe, ball bashing type of tennis. Do you think had she stuck with her original, natural way of play she could of been top five and come closer to fulfilling her potential ?
WTF she was a pusher when she came back Just... stick to Serena. And her best ranking was number 6, not very far from Top 5 I'd say

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post #96 of 326 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 2012, 08:21 PM
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by mistymore View Post
1993-1995 atleast had Graf, Sanchez Vicario at her peak, Navratilova in her swang song in 93-94, and the exciting Pierce in 94-95 playing her best and most consistent tennis ever. 1997 only had Hingis and absolutely nothing else. So if 1993-1995 is a dark age, what on earth does that make 1997, a triple dark age? I dont expect any reply from hingis-seles though as this poster tends to never reply when shown wrong on anything.
The same ASV at her peak who got clobbered by Graf and Pierce in two AO finals, who got bageled in a final set of the RG final against an injured Graf, who was only able to win the US Open because of Graf's bad back? Navratilova was for all intents and purposes finished in 93-94. What exactly did Pierce do besides clobber a mediocre Graf in '94 at RG? She won the AO but Graf didn't play and destroyed her in Paris 6-2, 6-2 a couple of weeks later. There's a reason why Martina referred to the Tour as "Steffi and the seven dwarves" when she retired in 1994, why Sports Illustrated ran a cover story "Is Tennis Dying?" in 1994, and why Navratilova made it her mission to get Seles back to the Tour.

In 1997, Hingis had a better Davenport than the earlier version Graf had been beating up on, she had Majoli (who was a top 10 player and winning Tier I titles over ASV and Seles in '96 during Graf's peak), Coetzer who was humiliating Graf every chance she got, Novotna on grass (who was also a Graf opponent). If the competition in '97 sucked, the competition in '96 couldn't have been much better.

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post #97 of 326 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 2012, 08:22 PM
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by AcesHigh View Post
People are using the lack of competition argument.. really? I guess we can put an asterisk next to Serena and Clijsters as well.
And Court, Navratilova, Evert, Graf and just about every other champion in women's tennis.

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post #98 of 326 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 2012, 08:27 PM
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by metamorpha View Post
I'm not stupid but it's 15 years ago. Use your head when comparing. Might as well ignore the achievements of Evertilova and also Graf, since Hingis ate up her competition when she's not there in 1997.
The salient point is that there was less depth at the top of the game in 1997, when Martina won 60% of her slams. Thank god Hingis was around to pick up the pieces and keep the silverware in the hands of champion.

But I wasn't talking about that. Hingis won her slams fair and square - just responding to your assertion that the depth in the rank and file players hasn't improved dramatically since then.


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In 1997 Venus was Hingis' age (2 months actually), and already 5 inches taller, if she was good why wasn't 1997 her year?
Probably because Venus only started playing full time that year. No-one has their best year, or dominates in their first full year on tour.

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(1)A lot is being made of the record Serena has vs Sharapova. It is being used as THE reason she will win again lol. Good thing we have players like Tomas Berdych (who had an even worse record vs Nadal) to remind us of the fallacy of this nonsense logic.
(2)You stans may as well sleep well tonight because tomorrow the a replay of Lucie's winning moment over and over again will haunt your dreams for weeks to come
(3)The stars have aligned perfectly for the upset of the 21st century. All the best Garbine
(4) There is no path to victory for Williams.Keys wins in straight easy sets.
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post #99 of 326 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 2012, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by Sammo View Post
WTF she was a pusher when she came back Just... stick to Serena. And her best ranking was number 6, not very far from Top 5 I'd say
I disagree. She did try power and drive through her shots more than she did before.
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post #100 of 326 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 2012, 08:29 PM
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by Sammo View Post
Hingis is 6-7 against Serena, Sharapova is something like 2-48 against her
Since when Serena became the measuring greatness.
I'm pretty sure Hingis would trade her H2H over Serena with Sharapova's one just for the French Open. Didn't she come back just for this title ?!
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post #101 of 326 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 2012, 08:30 PM
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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I disagree. She did try power and drive through her shots more than she did before.
She couldn't eccelerate her forehand and her backhand was slower. At her peak it was not unusual to see her to routinely win points with her serve and to outhit a lot of players.

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post #102 of 326 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 2012, 08:31 PM
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
Since when Serena became THE reference.
I'm pretty sure Hingis would trade her H2H over Serena with Sharapova's one just for the French Open. Didn't she come back just for this title ?
Hingis already said she is trading one of her Australian Opens for Majoli's French Open. (Majoli is apparently a terrible negotiator)


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post #103 of 326 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 2012, 08:32 PM
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by hingis-seles View Post
The same ASV at her peak who got clobbered by Graf and Pierce in two AO finals, who got bageled in a final set of the RG final against an injured Graf, who was only able to win the US Open because of Graf's bad back? Navratilova was for all intents and purposes finished in 93-94. What exactly did Pierce do besides clobber a mediocre Graf in '94 at RG? She won the AO but Graf didn't play and destroyed her in Paris 6-2, 6-2 a couple of weeks later. There's a reason why Martina referred to the Tour as "Steffi and the seven dwarves" when she retired in 1994, why Sports Illustrated ran a cover story "Is Tennis Dying?" in 1994, and why Navratilova made it her mission to get Seles back to the Tour.

In 1997, Hingis had a better Davenport than the earlier version Graf had been beating up on, she had Majoli (who was a top 10 player and winning Tier I titles over ASV and Seles in '96 during Graf's peak), Coetzer who was humiliating Graf every chance she got, Novotna on grass (who was also a Graf opponent). If the competition in '97 sucked, the competition in '96 couldn't have been much better.
Martina Navratilova said what she did simply because she always disliked Graf. She is the last one who should speak of a weak tour since the worst year in womens tennis history came in her own most historic year 1983. Worse than 1997, worse than 2010, far worse than any year Graf was on top. Chris Evert playing craptacular tennis, Mandlikova dropping out of the top 10 (and in that mug field for someone of her immense talent that was a huge achievement to manage), and the top 10 full of a collection of talentless and hopeless scabs who made the likes of Shriver and Jaeger look like supertalents who were by far the best of the rest. Just recollecting some off the top of my head- Bettina Bunge, Claudia Kohde Kilsch, Barbara Potter, Jo Durie, Andrea Leand, Sylvia Hanika, most of those Germans a 15 year old Graf was already beating 6-2, 6-2 or worse, oh Steffi was so lucky not to face that killer field Martina lorded over and rather dwarfes like Sanchez, Sabatini, Pierce, and others. It was so bad Navratilova went out of numerous press conferences either in tears or in rage defending agressive journalists who pounded her about how terrible the womens game in 1983 was, and if she felt embarassed for the state of the womens game, rather than talking about her historic year. Do you want me to send you some videotapes of press conferences from the 83 U.S Open, since I would be quite happy too if you wish. The TV ratings for womens tennis during the first few years of Navratilova's dominance shot way downwards, lower than they were any year Graf was #1, and womens tennis only became watchable again in 1985 when Evert and Mandilikova resurged, and Graf and Sabatini began to emerge. Lastly these were the slam finals that year: Evert vs Jacousec, Navratilova vs Jaeger, Navratilova vs Evert, Navratilova vs Jordan. I think the closest one was 6-3, 6-1.

Are you seriously saying Coetzer, Novotna, Majoli or Davenport in 97 were better than Sanchez Vicario from 93-96, Pierce in 94-95, Seles from late 95-96, even Martinez from 93-96. Cute joke. Yes Coetzer was around in the Graf post stabbing era you refer to and couldnt even get into the top 15, yet rose to #3 in the 97 field miracelously. She sucks so much her record vs Conchita Martinez is something like 2-18, and I am sure Martinez is someone you view as a weak player. Davenport in 97 still sucked, in slams she lost to Po, Chladkova, Majoli from 7-5, 4-0 up, before her one respectable showing in making the U.S Open semis after Novotna gagged a match point and lead in their quarterfinal. Seles in 95-96 made 3 of 5 slam finals, winning 1 and losing only to Steffi Graf in the other, destroying everyone in making those 3 slam finals except for one match with an inspired and then hot rising Rubin in doing. Her other big match losses were to Novotna who was always a tough opponent for her (and who is somehow you are apparently buffing up as that was Hingis's biggest competition by far in 97, lol), and the only bad one to Studenikova, but on grass where she was always mostly useless anyway. In 97 she lost in 2 of her 3 slams to Spirlea and Testud after choking away a match point and both no less, both women commiting 70+ unforced errors en route to their defeats of her to boot, and the other one lost to a sluggish, unfit, way off form Hingis just coming off a layoff, and who would get slaughtered by Iva freaking Majoli the next round. Novotna was indeed a player of the Graf era and found herself firmly below Sanchez Vicario, Sabatini, and even Conchita Martinez for many years, so if you think those people are weak obviously Jana is way weaker, since she was always worse than they were, only rising to the top 3 in 1997 after they all fell off the radar.

Last edited by mistymore; Sep 25th, 2012 at 08:42 PM.
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post #104 of 326 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 2012, 08:33 PM
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by Griffin. View Post
Hingis already said she is trading one of her Australian Opens for Majoli's French Open. (Majoli is apparently a terrible negotiator)
Why is that? Everyone knows the Australian Open is far better than Roland Garros in like... every aspect?

The belief that man is an irresolute creature pulled this way and that by two forces of equal strength, alternately winning and losing the battle for his soul; the conviction that human life is nothing more than an uncertain struggle between heaven and hell; the faith in two opposed entities, Satan and Christ - all this was bound to engender those internal discords in which the mind, excited by the incessant fighting, stimulated as it were by the constant promises and threats, ends up by giving in and prostitutes itself to whichever of the two combatants has been more obstinate in its pursuit. Life isn't black and white, it's gold.
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post #105 of 326 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 2012, 08:46 PM
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Why is that? Everyone knows the Australian Open is far better than Roland Garros in like... every aspect?
Still hurt because of the rudeness of the French Open crowd
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