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post #361 of 572 (permalink) Old Oct 4th, 2012, 06:36 PM
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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Maybe I'm not hip enough, daft, or haven't been on Tennis Forum long enough. But what does "Cali" mean or stand for? I've seen you write that before.

And please don't say California. And if so, please tell me why.
Calimero, also known as Max. Rather obscene Graf fan who has also plagued rst.

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post #362 of 572 (permalink) Old Oct 4th, 2012, 06:49 PM
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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Maybe I'm not hip enough, daft, or haven't been on Tennis Forum long enough. But what does "Cali" mean or stand for? I've seen you write that before.

And please don't say California. And if so, please tell me why.
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post #363 of 572 (permalink) Old Oct 4th, 2012, 09:08 PM
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

what's Gunther up to now? Living up with the money Peter Graf paid him?

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post #364 of 572 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 2012, 01:09 AM
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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Calimero, also known as Max. Rather obscene Graf fan who has also plagued rst.
OK.

Thanks.
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post #365 of 572 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 2012, 01:29 AM
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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what's Gunther up to now?
He plans to visit soon as he heard you were asking for him

Last edited by Anabelcroft; Oct 5th, 2012 at 11:19 AM.
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post #366 of 572 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 2012, 11:25 AM
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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No matter how many times you post and try to make Graf be this and that, it won't happen. You want records that are not tainted? Billy Jean King, Court, Evert, Martina, etc.. They have records that are not tainted..
If you say tainted you must know which of them can be regarded as such,so I was wondering which of Graf's Grand Slam titles would you regard as tainted and how would you make a selection?Or you regard all post 1993 as tainted?Thnx
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post #367 of 572 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 2012, 01:21 PM
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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If you say tainted you must know which of them can be regarded as such,so I was wondering which of Graf's Grand Slam titles would you regard as tainted and how would you make a selection?Or you regard all post 1993 as tainted?Thnx
All post Oct 93, when Seles was stabbed. Those slams and her record is tainted. Seles was her main rival. The stabber's motive was to stop Seles so Graf could advance. That is EXACTLY what happened. But, Graf fans are in denial, even denying the stabber himself. This is basic common sense.

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post #368 of 572 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 2012, 01:25 PM
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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what's Gunther up to now? Living up with the money Peter Graf paid him?
He is a Hero in Germany, and the #1 Graf Fan. He earned that distinction!!
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post #369 of 572 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 2012, 01:35 PM
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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Does this mean that all other Grand Slam winners until 2003 should be given asterix or just Graf because she won most of them?

Based on that Arantxa should give up her RG titles('94 and '98),her US title('94),Mary Pierce her AO 1995 and RG 2000,Martina Hingis,Serena and Venus Williams etc.?
No,just records of players that opponents were stabbed so they could advance!!!

Let me repeat,

No,just records of players that opponents were stabbed so they could advance!!!
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post #370 of 572 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 2012, 01:35 PM
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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Originally Posted by cehowardrx7 View Post
All post Oct 93, when Seles was stabbed. Those slams and her record is tainted.
Thnx.

Does that basically mean that everyone's Slam victory from 1993 up to 1999 or even up to 2003 is tainted?

Or as someone mentioned only Graf's titles were tainted because she won the most?
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post #371 of 572 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 2012, 01:38 PM
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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Originally Posted by cehowardrx7 View Post
All post Oct 93, when Seles was stabbed. Those slams and her record is tainted. Seles was her main rival. The stabber's motive was to stop Seles so Graf could advance. That is EXACTLY what happened. But, Graf fans are in denial, even denying the stabber himself. This is basic common sense.

I rob a bank, and the bank goes bankrupt on the day I rob it, and my excuse, they were going broke anyway!! ha!
I think most sane people agree that Monica looked as if she would have won more slams and that Steffi did lose her main rival and did have more opportunities therefore to win more slams. But the point I would make is that no one can blame Steffi for that. What was she supposed to do? Not play until Monica came back? Then no one would have played until Monica came back? Cancel the WTA Tour for nearly 3 years? Have everyone who won a slam after 1993 have Monica's name emblazoned on the trophy as well? What happened is horrible, I just don't see what the solution could have been, should have been to redress what happened. The only thing that could address it was for Monica to recover, play and win. It is often the case that when horrible things happen to someone they never get what might be classed as moral justice. The only justice is within the person themselves to recover and get back on the horse. Unfortunately not everyone can do that, and that is a sad fact of life. But don't blame or hate Steffi for events out of her control. Did the Tour stop, did Monica stop playing when Steffi was out injured in the late 90s? No. There was nothing anyone could do, except Monica.
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post #372 of 572 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 2012, 01:41 PM
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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Originally Posted by cehowardrx7 View Post

No,just records of players that opponents were stabbed so they could advance!!!
Ok,this seems to be an answer to my question too.

So,if Graf hadn't won any Slams after you would consider Slams won by others legitimate and without asterix?
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post #373 of 572 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 2012, 01:50 PM
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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Have everyone who won a slam after 1993 have Monica's name emblazoned on the trophy as well?
That is also my point.Based on that every Grand Slam winner from 1993 to 2003 should be given asterix in advance as nobody knew who will win them in future(from April 1993) if you know what I mean.

Ruling out just one player and favoring others who were in the same situation(profited from her stabbing) is ridiculous and only suggests that the player who won the most should be given asterix only just because he won the most and the ones who won less as non-relevant for any kind of goat story should be left alone enjoying their legitimate victory.

As somebody mentioned Arantxa should not be given asterix for her '94 US Open win,even though she beat Steffi in the final and if Steffi had won that same final she should be given asterix just because she dared to win? Lol

To me this is just funny.

Last edited by Asta; Oct 5th, 2012 at 02:08 PM.
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post #374 of 572 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 2012, 02:15 PM
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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Originally Posted by cehowardrx7 View Post

Let me repeat,
Ahhh,here you are

Let me repeat a question you avoid answering once again:

"Why is Graf always voted the greatest by experts,people around the world and by tennis-forum members if her records are indeed "tainted,old news and history" as you say?

Just answer what is the main reason she is always voted the greatest?

Last edited by Anabelcroft; Oct 5th, 2012 at 04:07 PM.
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post #375 of 572 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 2012, 02:20 PM
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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Originally Posted by Asta View Post
Ok,this seems to be an answer to my question too.

So,if Graf hadn't won any Slams after you would consider Slams won by others legitimate and without asterix?
Other players don't come into this equation.

First, the stabber's specific motive was for Seles to stop beating Graf so Graf could advance. No other players were involved. If the stabber was Sele's lover and stabbed her in a lover's quarrel, that would have done NOTHING to Graf's record. Her record would not be tainted.

Again, other players weren't in the mix.. It was a Seles vs Graf thing. The stabbing was done for one reason only, and that was to advance Graf!!

Also, the only reason this subject comes up is because Graf's fan want to tout her 22 slam count record. If they don't do that, this would never be mentioned.
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