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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 2012, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
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TF Coaches: how to beat and how to make them win

it seems that everyone here plays to be a tennis experct (me included) so this is quite fun i guess, out of every player in your mind you are asked to write a few line as if you were a coach. You should write both cases: 1) how to beat that player
2) how to make her win her match (i know it mostly depends on the opponent, but let's imagine a plan to enhance her qualities)

have fun

may your choices reflect your hopes not your fears.

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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 2012, 12:35 PM
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Re: TF Coaches: how to beat and how to make them win

Most of us are only pseudoexperts and have never had a tennis racket in their hands so what's the point
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 2012, 12:38 PM
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Re: TF Coaches: how to beat and how to make them win

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Originally Posted by PainfulTruth View Post
Most of us are only pseudoexperts and have never had a tennis racket in their hands so what's the point
Speak for yourself......a lot of people here are good at tennis. It is just that the ones that speak the loudest and crunch the most numbers are not.

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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 2012, 12:46 PM Thread Starter
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Re: TF Coaches: how to beat and how to make them win

Flavia Pennetta
General review: at her best she's a solid player, with really good groundstrokes from both wings. She's an excellent counterpuncher, with good movements and both a nice serve and volleying. She struggles to generate her own power though.

how to beat her: as a rythm player I would try to make her go for the shots and trying to give her less free points possible. "pushing" is a great weapon against her as she is likely to have her game breaking down if she starts to get a lot of balls back every point. I would also try to keep her away from the net playing top spin balls or moonballs, mostly on her FH side. Drop shot is also a good weapon against her, since she often stays far from the baseline.

How to make her win: as said above, she's a good player in every department, so I would try her to rely on her strenght, by mixing up her shots in order to build the point up as she can finish with a "safe winner" or a net rush. Her BH DTL or loopy FH CC are always good shots to open up the court, as the first is a solid and powerful shots and the second bounces far enough from the baseline and forces the opponent to run backwards. She has a great dropshot, so I would try to make her playing more of them.

may your choices reflect your hopes not your fears.

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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 2012, 12:53 PM
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Re: TF Coaches: how to beat and how to make them win

Ana Ivanovic
General Review: At her best, she's a powerful baseliner who serves well. But that's rare nowadays, so she's mainly a head case. She has a good return and okay movement, particularly struggles with low deep balls to her BH which often get shanked.

How to beat her: Hit to her BH, or down the line to her FH because she leaves the court open. Also attack 2nd serves to build pressure. She'll crumble

How to make her win: Make her slice every BH, and run around to hit her FH as much as possible. Serving at 80% down the tee and kickers out wide for every 1st serve to keep the % high.


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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 2012, 01:01 PM
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Re: TF Coaches: how to beat and how to make them win

Kvitova:

How to beat her: three ways: either retrieve well and hope that she's having one of those days when she sprays 50 UEs. But this is dangerous, because you're not in control of your own destiny, and if she's having a good day, she'll just trash you when you play defensively. The second way is to absolutely pin all her serves back at her ankles, like Sharapova did at RG and Stuttgart, and save all the break points you face on your own serve. The third way is to own an unbreakable serve of your own, like Serena at Wimbledon.

How to lose to her: Leave her some mid-court ball to smack. Fail to figure out her serve, like Parmentier. Let her run you from corner to corner, like Bartoli last time they played.

"I really have friends on the tour, and I'm really happy for it. ...I remember when I was young and someone told my father that I'm too nice for tennis. So I'm just glad that I can be nice off the court and fighting on the court." Petra Kvitova, May 8, 2005

P. Kvitova def. S. Williams 6-2, 6-3
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 2012, 01:24 PM
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Re: TF Coaches: how to beat and how to make them win

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Originally Posted by brickhousesupporter View Post
Speak for yourself......a lot of people here are good at tennis. It is just that the ones that speak the loudest and crunch the most numbers are not.
You dont need to be good at tennis to be a good coach. I also think that many here are actually good at breaking down how to beat the top players (on paper/theoretically). From watching them play against a variety of players we have seen the best strategies to beat them. So its not really that difficult to do. But we deal with hypotheticals, the coaches have to the deal with the real strength and weaknesses of their own players. Most players only have one way to play and cannot alter it drastically. Sometimes its not even about the playing style. Just look at the players that beat Stosur most of the time. They are all tall girls who can handle the kickserve (and topspin) easily. If you are 55 and cannot handle the kick youll have a tough time to break down Stosur even if you know how to beat her on paper. In theory well-timed net approaches to shorten points at the net against defensive players is the way to go. In reality that is a pretty useless tactic, when most girls have no timing for net approaches and cannot volley or smash (especially under pressure).

- Caroline Wozniacki has never beaten a reigning world #1.
- Caroline Wozniacki has never beaten a top 5 player at a major.
- Caroline Wozniacki has not beaten a top 3 player en route to any of her 25 titles.
- Caroline Wozniacki has beaten three top 5 players en route to her 25 titles (#4 Radwanska, #4 Zvonareva and #5 Schiavone)

This update was brought to you by Kiki Maladenovic.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 2012, 01:55 PM
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Re: TF Coaches: how to beat and how to make them win

A different type of thread, interesting thread Fantasy Hero. As others have said, there are some very knowledgable posters on this forum, and sure you don't have to be a top player to be a good coach, in fact in most sports including football, some of the best coaches never played to any premium level at all, like Arrigo Sacchi and Jose Mourinho to name two. Gerrard Houllier was a schoolteacher before becomming a football coach and manager. I actually did a couple of coaching courses (tennis that is) exactly 10 years ago in 2002.

How about Victoria Azarenka? Probably the ultimate modern player in this era of slower surfaces. Very similar to a Novak Djokovic and Rafael Nadal as she is prepared to grind for a long time to win a tennis match and has developed a good temperment, like Djokovic something she has had to work on. Very solid technique indeed.

How to beat her? That's very difficult because of her consistent level, it never really drops so you have to raise your level and try to get her on the move. Despite the fact she has worked hard on her movement, she is not the most natural mover around the court so she can be taken out of her comfort zone by getting her pulled out wide and then with drop shots.

Azarenka, like Djokovic, plus players like Courier and Lendl in the past, they are vulnerable to talented shotmakers. So Azarenka is vulnerable to Petra Kvitova because Kvitova goes for her shots and raises her game which Azarenka finds unsettling as a player who wants a rthythm. Djokovic has this problem with Federer, Courier and Agassi had that problem with Sampras and Lendl had that problem with Becker. Azarenka also has a problem with Serena's serve and athleticism (but everyone has a problem with Serena these days).

How to get Azarenka to win?
Quite simple I think, her technique and temperment is so good that her consistency will beat almost everyone all of the time. Plus like Lendl, her philosophy is to do it to you before you do it to her "crush or be crushed" is the phrase that was coined. She wants to jerk you around side to side like Agassi used to do, dictating the middle of the court. However, that's why players like that don't like shotmakers, because shotmakers take you out of that comfort zone of the middle of the court.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 2012, 04:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: TF Coaches: how to beat and how to make them win

Caroline Wozniacki
General review: at her best, Caroline had the most solid game in the tour and the best fitness too. Her major strenght was her unbreakable defence, given by terrific movements and anticipation, moreover she rarely would give you easy balls to retrive being her BH pretty hard and her FH loopy enough to be deep bouncing. She lacks of rough power, but on her good days she can use the power of the balls she gets to counterpunch winners.

How to beat her: there are actually two ways to beat the best wozniacki: one is to completly overpower her, but it's a major risk, mostly for players who are not 100% aggressive, or ready to hit winners-attempts 3-4 times each rally (they are likely to finish "pushed to death" in the sense that frustration and tiredness will slowly get in them and match is likely to finish in a errorfest). the other way is to give her no path and mostly on her FH no power to hit through, mixing up slices and flat shots to take her away from her compfort zone and even make her rush to the net (bewaring of doing a good dropshot as she's not that easy to pass at the net). Trying not to break her FH by hitting only there as she's not going to miss any shot, unless you make her run to the FH, this can also be a way to open up the court.

how to get her to win: Within her old good days none would have loved to finish in her way to a title, but still she couldn't get to a slam, many said it was because she wasn't aggressive enough or didn't have a killing shot. In my opinion, she needed to improve her FH, only in the sense of being able of closing points with it on easy balls, her loopy-defensive shot could do a lot more troubles than those lame wannabe-hard hitting she's trying. She needs to rely on her strenght and go more to the net to close points, once she has set the point by moving her opponent around, mostly by finding angles with BH and then going DTL.

may your choices reflect your hopes not your fears.

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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 2012, 04:47 PM
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Re: TF Coaches: how to beat and how to make them win

I'd made a thread like this in 2010. Few here seemed to be interested then and apparently one or more mods doesn't want it bumped up now. I don't know why mods would do that is but here's a link to the thread.

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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old Sep 3rd, 2012, 10:40 AM Thread Starter
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Re: TF Coaches: how to beat and how to make them win

honestly none of the two have/had big success, but at least here one can read 3-4 intersting posts

may your choices reflect your hopes not your fears.

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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old Sep 3rd, 2012, 11:09 AM
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Re: TF Coaches: how to beat and how to make them win

Interesting thread. I'll do my favourite player

Yaroslava Shvedova
General review: Slava is an all surface player who is comfortable anywhere on the court. Her strongest shot is her backhand, and weakest is forehand. Her net play is good due to her doubles success. She is quite a powerfull player, Not as powerfull as the likes of Kvitova but she's got good power in her strokes. She is very fit and athletic so she covers the court well. Serve is inconsistent, but decent when it's in. Lacks mental strength on the big points.

how to beat her: Hit to her Forehand as much as possible. This will cause her to spray errors. Stay mentally strong on the big points, because it's almost guarenteed that she won't. If you can stay strong on the big points, then you will win them. Stay consistently good throughout the match, so you can capitalise when her level drops. Also, be strong, and consistent on serve and don't let her run away with the set. Keep it close, and she'll tighten up, then the errors happen

How to make her win: Be on. When she's on her weaknesses are no longer that really. Stay consistent on serve. If she stays consistent on her serve then there is a good chance she can win. Also, keep a good shot selection and mvoe to the net at the right times, because At times she can make some stupid decisions. If she's up against a weak hitter, overpower her, and attack the net. If she's up against a hard hitter, counter punch. She's capable of doing both. Make sure the match isn't close, because she tightens up on the big points and chokes a lot

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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old Sep 4th, 2012, 12:17 PM
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Re: TF Coaches: how to beat and how to make them win

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Originally Posted by laurie View Post
A different type of thread, interesting thread Fantasy Hero. As others have said, there are some very knowledgable posters on this forum, and sure you don't have to be a top player to be a good coach, in fact in most sports including football, some of the best coaches never played to any premium level at all, like Arrigo Sacchi and Jose Mourinho to name two. Gerrard Houllier was a schoolteacher before becomming a football coach and manager. I actually did a couple of coaching courses (tennis that is) exactly 10 years ago in 2002.

How about Victoria Azarenka? Probably the ultimate modern player in this era of slower surfaces. Very similar to a Novak Djokovic and Rafael Nadal as she is prepared to grind for a long time to win a tennis match and has developed a good temperment, like Djokovic something she has had to work on. Very solid technique indeed.

How to beat her? That's very difficult because of her consistent level, it never really drops so you have to raise your level and try to get her on the move. Despite the fact she has worked hard on her movement, she is not the most natural mover around the court so she can be taken out of her comfort zone by getting her pulled out wide and then with drop shots.

Azarenka, like Djokovic, plus players like Courier and Lendl in the past, they are vulnerable to talented shotmakers. So Azarenka is vulnerable to Petra Kvitova because Kvitova goes for her shots and raises her game which Azarenka finds unsettling as a player who wants a rthythm. Djokovic has this problem with Federer, Courier and Agassi had that problem with Sampras and Lendl had that problem with Becker. Azarenka also has a problem with Serena's serve and athleticism (but everyone has a problem with Serena these days).

How to get Azarenka to win?
Quite simple I think, her technique and temperment is so good that her consistency will beat almost everyone all of the time. Plus like Lendl, her philosophy is to do it to you before you do it to her "crush or be crushed" is the phrase that was coined. She wants to jerk you around side to side like Agassi used to do, dictating the middle of the court. However, that's why players like that don't like shotmakers, because shotmakers take you out of that comfort zone of the middle of the court.
Great post. Very very true about matchups like Lendl/Becker, Sampras/Courier and the other mentioned.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old Sep 4th, 2012, 02:34 PM
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Re: TF Coaches: how to beat and how to make them win

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How to beat Serena Williams? Pls, urgent !!!!

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Career Grand Slam Winner
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WTA Championships 2004
London Olympics silver medallist

35 WTA titles , including 14 Tier I titles
21 weeks #1 player
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old Sep 4th, 2012, 02:51 PM
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Re: TF Coaches: how to beat and how to make them win

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Originally Posted by laurie View Post
A different type of thread, interesting thread Fantasy Hero. As others have said, there are some very knowledgable posters on this forum, and sure you don't have to be a top player to be a good coach, in fact in most sports including football, some of the best coaches never played to any premium level at all, like Arrigo Sacchi and Jose Mourinho to name two. Gerrard Houllier was a schoolteacher before becomming a football coach and manager. I actually did a couple of coaching courses (tennis that is) exactly 10 years ago in 2002.

How about Victoria Azarenka? Probably the ultimate modern player in this era of slower surfaces. Very similar to a Novak Djokovic and Rafael Nadal as she is prepared to grind for a long time to win a tennis match and has developed a good temperment, like Djokovic something she has had to work on. Very solid technique indeed.

How to beat her? That's very difficult because of her consistent level, it never really drops so you have to raise your level and try to get her on the move. Despite the fact she has worked hard on her movement, she is not the most natural mover around the court so she can be taken out of her comfort zone by getting her pulled out wide and then with drop shots.

Azarenka, like Djokovic, plus players like Courier and Lendl in the past, they are vulnerable to talented shotmakers. So Azarenka is vulnerable to Petra Kvitova because Kvitova goes for her shots and raises her game which Azarenka finds unsettling as a player who wants a rthythm. Djokovic has this problem with Federer, Courier and Agassi had that problem with Sampras and Lendl had that problem with Becker. Azarenka also has a problem with Serena's serve and athleticism (but everyone has a problem with Serena these days).

How to get Azarenka to win?
Quite simple I think, her technique and temperment is so good that her consistency will beat almost everyone all of the time. Plus like Lendl, her philosophy is to do it to you before you do it to her "crush or be crushed" is the phrase that was coined. She wants to jerk you around side to side like Agassi used to do, dictating the middle of the court. However, that's why players like that don't like shotmakers, because shotmakers take you out of that comfort zone of the middle of the court.
Azarenka is also vulnerable to players with good serves, since she doesn't have one herself.

Another reason why Petra gives her trouble, is because Petra has good enough hands to play the fast baseline game Azarenka likes, and can redirect Azarenka's shots for those winners you mentioned. Petra also has the power, hands (from the baseline) and the touch/off speed shots to make Azarenka uncomfortable. This is cause Kvitova doesn't respect Azarenka's power or serve, and has good enough hands to play her type of game.

Azarenka did well against Sharapova on hardcourts earlier this year, cause Sharapova doesn't have good enough hands to play as close and fast to the baseline that Azarenka likes, and can't redirect as well, so she make errors or gets pulled out of court for Azarenka winners.

Sharapova's serve doesn't seem to bother Aza as much on hardcourts as well.

And of course Serena has a great serve, power (she may not have the best hands anymore), but she can run down balls when she wants or is in good shape. So of course she gives Azarenka trouble because of this (as well as Serena revenge and intimidation from Miami years ago, that Aza hasn't seemed to shake).
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