"REAL Clay"/NON-RED Clay vs. Clay Specialists: NOT An Ideal Marriage - TennisForum.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2012, 05:01 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
tennisbum79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Planet Venus
Posts: 39,486
                     
"REAL Clay"/NON-RED Clay vs. Clay Specialists: NOT An Ideal Marriage

There have been lot of talk lately about the real clay, i.e. red clay on one hand, and non-red clay (green, blue, indoor clay) on the other hand.
With the exit of Sam Ssour today, the presumed current clay specialist and others, is it fair to ask the question whether these clay specialist have harder time transitioning from non-red clay to real clay?

__________________________________
Venus Williams Grand Slam VII
Serena Williams Grand Slam XXI

Nadia Petrova Grand Slam Hope Is Fading
Updated: Jan 31. 2015
Next Update Date: Post 2015 RG
Rest in peace, Elena Baltacha.

Last edited by tennisbum79; May 17th, 2012 at 06:37 PM.
tennisbum79 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2012, 05:16 PM
Team WTAworld
Senior Member
 
Marcus1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 41,493
                     
Re: "REAL Clay"/NON-RED Clay vs. Clay Specialists: NOT An Ideal Marriage

well Justine was always able to transition from green clay to red clay pretty easily

Queen Vee, Super Rena, Krazy Kuzzie

Quote:
Originally Posted by honzaneumannn View Post
So who will win the next 6 Wimbledons? Petra 2 of them, thats for sure. And dont even try to tell me that you see some hotter candidates than hers!
Marcus1979 is offline  
post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2012, 05:20 PM
Senior Member
 
LightWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,492
                     
Re: "REAL Clay"/NON-RED Clay vs. Clay Specialists: NOT An Ideal Marriage

Stosur was just bad today so I don't think it has to do with switching to real clay. All I know is that Serena is struggling on red clay and seems to have the hardest time transitioning. Venus not so much. Go figure...
LightWarrior is offline  
post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2012, 05:30 PM
Team WTAworld
Senior Member
 
Marcus1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 41,493
                     
Re: "REAL Clay"/NON-RED Clay vs. Clay Specialists: NOT An Ideal Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by LightWarrior View Post
Stosur was just bad today so I don't think it has to do with switching to real clay. All I know is that Serena is struggling on red clay and seems to have the hardest time transitioning. Venus not so much. Go figure...
Venus has not won Roland Garros but has won more clay titles than Serena and has reached at least the finals on all of the major ones (Except for the new STuttgart event)

i.e

Rome lost Final 1998, won in 1999
Hamburg - Finalist in 2002, Won in 1999 and 2001
Warsaw finalist in 2003, won in 2004
Berlin finalist 2004
Madrid finalist in 2010
Amelia Island won in 2002
Charleston won in 2004

Queen Vee, Super Rena, Krazy Kuzzie

Quote:
Originally Posted by honzaneumannn View Post
So who will win the next 6 Wimbledons? Petra 2 of them, thats for sure. And dont even try to tell me that you see some hotter candidates than hers!
Marcus1979 is offline  
post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2012, 05:30 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 106
                     
Re: "REAL Clay"/NON-RED Clay vs. Clay Specialists: NOT An Ideal Marriage

All the surfaces have been adapted to the style of todays tour. There's no variation, or little of it in the way players are playing. For me that's why Henin was such a joy to watch with her style, single-handed backhand. Nobody now wants to take the time to develop their game, now it's just a dash for the cash. So the tour had done away with many tournaments and also altered the surfaces and tennis balls. They dug up RG and poured cement on it for the ball to bounce like hard court, Wimbledon have changed the grass and cut it different. They changed the surface at AO, heavens just look at what they did in Madrid. All this is because everybody plays at the back of the court. All this transition has been happening over the past ten years or so and the WTA have been hoping nobody noticed.

Sam Stosur clay court specialist? When I think of CCS, names that spring to mind are Evert, Henin, Martinez, Sanchez-V, Sabatini and the likes.
Wozzilroy is offline  
post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2012, 05:37 PM
Team WTAworld
Senior Member
 
Marcus1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 41,493
                     
Re: "REAL Clay"/NON-RED Clay vs. Clay Specialists: NOT An Ideal Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wozzilroy View Post
All the surfaces have been adapted to the style of todays tour. There's no variation, or little of it in the way players are playing. For me that's why Henin was such a joy to watch with her style, single-handed backhand. Nobody now wants to take the time to develop their game, now it's just a dash for the cash. So the tour had done away with many tournaments and also altered the surfaces and tennis balls. They dug up RG and poured cement on it for the ball to bounce like hard court, Wimbledon have changed the grass and cut it different. They changed the surface at AO, heavens just look at what they did in Madrid. All this is because everybody plays at the back of the court. All this transition has been happening over the past ten years or so and the WTA have been hoping nobody noticed.

Sam Stosur clay court specialist? When I think of CCS, names that spring to mind are Evert, Henin, Martinez, Sanchez-V, Sabatini and the likes.
They had to do that, on hot days the surface would get sticky and players were injuring themselves. Players such as hewitt had complained for years about rebound ace.

Queen Vee, Super Rena, Krazy Kuzzie

Quote:
Originally Posted by honzaneumannn View Post
So who will win the next 6 Wimbledons? Petra 2 of them, thats for sure. And dont even try to tell me that you see some hotter candidates than hers!
Marcus1979 is offline  
post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2012, 05:39 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 106
                     
Re: "REAL Clay"/NON-RED Clay vs. Clay Specialists: NOT An Ideal Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus1979 View Post
They had to do that, on hot days the surface would get sticky and players were injuring themselves. Players such as hewitt had complained for years about rebound ace.
That's what they led you to believe. And whoever listened to what Hewitt ever said!?
Wozzilroy is offline  
post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2012, 05:41 PM
Team WTAworld
Senior Member
 
Marcus1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 41,493
                     
Re: "REAL Clay"/NON-RED Clay vs. Clay Specialists: NOT An Ideal Marriage

Serena in 2002 injured her ankle at SYdney which forced her to miss the Australia Open, which is basically the same surface as Melbourne Park.

Queen Vee, Super Rena, Krazy Kuzzie

Quote:
Originally Posted by honzaneumannn View Post
So who will win the next 6 Wimbledons? Petra 2 of them, thats for sure. And dont even try to tell me that you see some hotter candidates than hers!
Marcus1979 is offline  
post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2012, 05:50 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
tennisbum79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Planet Venus
Posts: 39,486
                     
Re: "REAL Clay"/NON-RED Clay vs. Clay Specialists: NOT An Ideal Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wozzilroy View Post
Sam Stosur clay court specialist? When I think of CCS, names that spring to mind are Evert, Henin, Martinez, Sanchez-V, Sabatini and the likes.
Allthose players are rtired now, we are talking current players and I thought that was the consensus on this forum that Stosur is a cly specilist?
Where have you been?
Or you want me to say she in a red-only-clay specilaist?
From what Kaz, her #1 fan says, that would be reasonable

__________________________________
Venus Williams Grand Slam VII
Serena Williams Grand Slam XXI

Nadia Petrova Grand Slam Hope Is Fading
Updated: Jan 31. 2015
Next Update Date: Post 2015 RG
Rest in peace, Elena Baltacha.
tennisbum79 is offline  
post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2012, 05:59 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 106
                     
Re: "REAL Clay"/NON-RED Clay vs. Clay Specialists: NOT An Ideal Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
Allthose players are rtired now, we are talking current players and I thought that was the consensus on this forum that Stosur is a cly specilist?
Where have you been?
Or you want me to say she in a red-only-clay specilaist?
From what Kaz, her #1 fan says, that would be reasonable
Today? I was out for shopping at Asda. I usually go to Tesco because that closer, but last time I was there I had a lot of hassle over counterfeit voucher coupons, so I decided not to go back until I got a apology. Then I came home and had some tea with doughnuts and watched some tennis.

On the tennis matter
That's the point, there are NO clay court specialists anymore. Just as there are no grass court specialists anymore
Wozzilroy is offline  
post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2012, 06:02 PM
Team WTAworld
Senior Member
 
Marcus1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 41,493
                     
Re: "REAL Clay"/NON-RED Clay vs. Clay Specialists: NOT An Ideal Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wozzilroy View Post
Today? I was out for shopping at Asda. I usually go to Tesco because that closer, but last time I was there I had a lot of hassle over counterfeit voucher coupons, so I decided not to go back until I got a apology. Then I came home and had some tea with doughnuts and watched some tennis.

On the tennis matter
That's the point, there are NO clay court specialists anymore. Just as there are no grass court specialists anymore
Would Venus be classed as one? Her most recent slams have all been at wimbledon no finals at the other 3 since 2002/03

Queen Vee, Super Rena, Krazy Kuzzie

Quote:
Originally Posted by honzaneumannn View Post
So who will win the next 6 Wimbledons? Petra 2 of them, thats for sure. And dont even try to tell me that you see some hotter candidates than hers!
Marcus1979 is offline  
post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2012, 06:11 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 106
                     
Re: "REAL Clay"/NON-RED Clay vs. Clay Specialists: NOT An Ideal Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus1979 View Post
Would Venus be classed as one? Her most recent slams have all been at wimbledon no finals at the other 3 since 2002/03
Venus puts more effort into Wimbledon for a start, once she gets a whiff of freshly cut lawn into her lungs she's a different person. She's a horses-for-courses player as far as Wimbledon in concerned. It's the same as many players go with the mind set they can't play on grass today, but they REALLY can if they tried, but they have a negative attitude before they even strike a ball

Venus could have easily won a few RG titles had she convinced herself to do so
Wozzilroy is offline  
post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2012, 06:17 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: usa
Posts: 1,401
                     
Re: "REAL Clay"/NON-RED Clay vs. Clay Specialists: NOT An Ideal Marriage

There are no such thing as "Clay Specialists" in the women game, as opposed to the men game. Female players don't have the variety of clay court game and ability to hit high top spin shots which is very important on clay ( Stosur is the sole exception and even she is not comparable to the men clay specialists in this department). The differences of the surfaces 's influence is overrated in the women game.




Top players are usually strong enough to prevail on all surfaces, including clay. Maria, Vika, Petra, Serena, etc... have been playing hard court tennis on clay with great results. Even "clay hatters" like Davenport, Kim did very well on clay too. Only a very few top players who have preferences for a specific surface would raise more on top, ie Justine on clay, Venus on grass. Non- top players who likes clay won't be strong enough to deal with top players who hate clay, Stosur - AMG- Sarra Erani,, LDL, Rezai, MJMS, etc... as opposed to Maria, Petra, Vika, Serena, etc...
dragonflies is offline  
post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2012, 06:19 PM
Senior Member
 
Simugna Help's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,474
                     
Re: "REAL Clay"/NON-RED Clay vs. Clay Specialists: NOT An Ideal Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wozzilroy View Post
That's what they led you to believe. And whoever listened to what Hewitt ever said!?
90% of women's tour, just listen to what they shout after every goddamn point.
Simugna Help is offline  
post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old May 17th, 2012, 06:27 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,018
                     
Re: "REAL Clay"/NON-RED Clay vs. Clay Specialists: NOT An Ideal Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wozzilroy View Post
Today? I was out for shopping at Asda. I usually go to Tesco because that closer, but last time I was there I had a lot of hassle over counterfeit voucher coupons, so I decided not to go back until I got a apology. Then I came home and had some tea with doughnuts and watched some tennis.

On the tennis matter
That's the point, there are NO clay court specialists anymore. Just as there are no grass court specialists anymore


Tesco are erratic on vouchers - sometimes they take them and sometimes they won't. I had 6 vouchers to get 6 free bottles of Lenor. They would only take 1 at a time - so I went out and came back in again. Got 6 bottles of Lenor for nothing

Go to http://www.hotukdeals.com/all/deals/new - get some nice deals there.

Back to tennis

I agree with you, there are no clay court specialists, but I do think Venus & Serena are grass specialists of this generation, don't you?
PetraReeMona is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Image Verification
Please enter the six letters or digits that appear in the image opposite.

Registration Image

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome