TF vs. the Tennis Community - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2012, 04:55 AM Thread Starter
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TF vs. the Tennis Community

I've always wondered why on TF Azarenka is referred to as a grinder whereas commentators/analysts would have you believe she's a Sharapova 2.0 with all out aggression.

Another one that springs to mind is Clijsters, she's constantly referred to as a pusher on TF but as an aggressive player by commentators/analysts.

Whos's right?

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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2012, 04:57 AM
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Re: TF vs. the Tennis Community

I never thought Azarenka/Clijsters were pushers/grinders.

I've always thought they are aggressive
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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2012, 10:20 AM
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Re: TF vs. the Tennis Community

I dont think its all of TF. just some posters like to place players in different catergories, whereas i dont think someones playstyle can be catergorised most the time...

Azarenka and Clijsters are good examples, both can be the agressor in a match, with playing counterpunching tennis in others. Personally (just my opinion) labels should only be used for tennis video games, not by tennis fans

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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2012, 10:35 AM
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Re: TF vs. the Tennis Community

who would here admit s/he is wrong anyway?

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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2012, 10:43 AM
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Re: TF vs. the Tennis Community

People on TF are generally better at understanding tennis than "professional" commentators and analysts. Azarenka is indeed a grinder. She has huge margin on her shots just like Djokovic. They both play an extremely high percentage and effective game, that is unfortunately extremely boring to watch.

However, I have never seen anyone on TF refer to Clijsters as a pusher. She likes to dictate play. It's just that in the past, her main rivals were even more aggressive, and so she was on the defense a lot. But she's never been a low risk, defensive player. I don't really see a different view here between TF and the "professional" commentators, because her game style is so well known and so easily analyzed.

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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2012, 10:47 AM
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Re: TF vs. the Tennis Community

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kworb View Post
People on TF are generally better at understanding tennis than "professional" commentators and analysts. Azarenka is indeed a grinder. She has huge margin on her shots just like Djokovic. They both play an extremely high percentage and effective game, that is unfortunately extremely boring to watch.

However, I have never seen anyone on TF refer to Clijsters as a pusher. She likes to dictate play. It's just that in the past, her main rivals were even more aggressive, and so she was on the defense a lot. But she's never been a low risk, defensive player. I don't really see a different view here between TF and the "professional" commentators, because her game style is so well known and so easily analyzed.
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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2012, 10:48 AM
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Re: TF vs. the Tennis Community

Because we are better. Even "respectable" commentators like Sam Smith spew shit 50% of the time.

Azarenka is a grinder through and through. Clijsters is refered to as a cockroach not as a pusher. She is fundamentally a retriever - which doesn't mean she's a defensive player, just that she is not willing to dictate from the first strike, but engage in neutral rallies, absorb pace, redirect it and wait for the right moment to go for the kill.

Last edited by Apoleb; Feb 22nd, 2012 at 10:54 AM.
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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2012, 10:51 AM
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Re: TF vs. the Tennis Community

Oh the egos of TF Posters!

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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2012, 10:57 AM
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Re: TF vs. the Tennis Community

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kworb View Post
People on TF are generally better at understanding tennis than "professional" commentators and analysts. Azarenka is indeed a grinder. She has huge margin on her shots just like Djokovic. They both play an extremely high percentage and effective game, that is unfortunately extremely boring to watch.

However, I have never seen anyone on TF refer to Clijsters as a pusher. She likes to dictate play. It's just that in the past, her main rivals were even more aggressive, and so she was on the defense a lot. But she's never been a low risk, defensive player. I don't really see a different view here between TF and the "professional" commentators, because her game style is so well known and so easily analyzed.
I doubt that . In between some good analyses a lot of nonsense is written here.Most professional commentators are also not so quick to hype a player to the moon as happens here. Take a random professional commentator and compare with a random poster here, Most of the time professional commentator will have more insight.
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2012, 11:14 AM
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Re: TF vs. the Tennis Community

Azarenka is a power grinder. This is more the case against good players who can control the game against her. Against scrubs ofc she can be more aggressive. She has been changing her game lately though, in the way that Woz keeps talking about doing.

Clijster can adapt her game to the opponent. She got a lot of hate from pressed TF in the AO final against Na because she was more defensive, but that was what the match called for. She just had to wait for Na to start missing and get back in the match.
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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2012, 11:22 AM
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Re: TF vs. the Tennis Community

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Most professional commentators are also not so quick to hype a player to the moon as happens here.
They really don't, it's rare to see them ever hold an opinion contrary to the popular belief at the time.
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2012, 11:33 AM
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Re: TF vs. the Tennis Community

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I doubt that . In between some good analyses a lot of nonsense is written here.Most professional commentators are also not so quick to hype a player to the moon as happens here. Take a random professional commentator and compare with a random poster here, Most of the time professional commentator will have more insight.
Most of us are far more committed to discussing and analyzing these players than those who get paid to do it. Our views come from years and years of discussing and fighting with other tennis fans, which has given us far better insight than those who are own their little island and don't ever debate the issues. They give their opinion, publish it somewhere and it goes unchallenged. So they get stuck in their false beliefs. The discussion and communication alone here on TF gives us the advantage when it comes to proper analysis, with the only downside that people never want to admit that they're wrong, even when they realize they are.

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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2012, 06:06 PM
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Re: TF vs. the Tennis Community

I'm talking about european TV commentators here, don't know as much about american commentators and people who write about tennis. Also talking about the average posters, sure there are some fine analysts on this forum and yes these are often more knowledgeable than TV commentators. But on average "us a better insight"? Please , just a few points:

Professional commentators won't hype a player to the moon once she wins a few matches. Look what happens with Goerges here, still many believe she'll reach top 10. Professional commentators were more cautious talking about good form and favorite surface which is what it was. She only had one good streak so far, on clay last year. Remember the Oudin hype? Vika was much hyped in 2008, failed to deliver then and was dismissed by many as a boring second rate rhythm player who would never win a slam, look where we are now.

There's much bias in favor of ballbashers on this forum confusing sheer power with talent. It's commonly believed here that if a player can strike the ball hard there must be a lot of talent and consistency will come in time, most of the time this is just plain wrong. Talent is a combination of many abilities not the least of them mental toughness. Professional commentators are more inclined to look at the whole spectrum.

Good looks are favored as well on the forum. Less so with commentators especially if they're female.

If there was a thread here where people were forced to admit they were wrong it would crash the database.
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2012, 06:21 PM
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Re: TF vs. the Tennis Community

The way people use counterpuncher on this forum shows they certainly don't know much about boxing (which is where the term comes from). Counterpunching does not = grinding. It means waiting for (or creating) an opening, then throwing a punch (or going for a winner). Which is actually exactly what Vika does. Of course, sometimes you grind a little to set up your punches, but Vika hits too many winners to be a mere grinder.

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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2012, 06:22 PM
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Re: TF vs. the Tennis Community

I'm sorry, but it's simply a fact that a lot of people on here have a better grasp of tennis than commentators As the OP said, EuroSport commentators really WERE saying for years that Azarenka was an out-and-out ballbasher, when this was patantly never the case (though in fairness, of late they do seem to have finally twigged that she's more about consistency).

(Incidentally, I'd class Azarenka and Clijsters as roughly in the middle of the Aggression ---> Defensiveness scale - both are counter-punchers/aggressive grinders).
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