Why was Lindsay a tougher match up for Martina than Venus was? - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 138 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2011, 10:38 AM Thread Starter
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Why was Lindsay a tougher match up for Martina than Venus was?

Lindsay led Martina 14-11, and Martina led Venus 11-10. Lindsay was 3-1 against Martina in slams, Venus was 2-4. Lindsay gave Martina more beatdowns than Venus ever did.

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post #2 of 138 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2011, 10:55 AM
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Re: Why was Lindsay a tougher match up for Martina than Venus was?

perhaps ypu might want to focus on when the bulk of those beat downs happen. venus and martina are of the same age but Venus only started playing professionally after martina was established. Kinda like the h2h of Venus and Justine can be misleading. History will always show a far superior Venus but once Justine got established she had one more victory, too bad they didn't play often enough.

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post #3 of 138 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2011, 10:56 AM
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Re: Why was Lindsay a tougher match up for Martina than Venus was?

Martina could give Venus junk and would force her to create her own pace. Venus absolutely hates that. Lindsay's strokes allowed her to hit throw the ball cleanly and beautifully whenever. And her balls were much heavier than Venus' flat shits.

Venus doesn't do well against opponents who are well at mixing it up. She loves hard hitters and pace, which explains her wins against Davenport.

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post #4 of 138 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2011, 11:25 AM
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Re: Why was Lindsay a tougher match up for Martina than Venus was?

Martina & Lindsay played 16 finals in a row?

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post #5 of 138 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2011, 11:30 AM
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Re: Why was Lindsay a tougher match up for Martina than Venus was?

Prime Venus owned Hingis. From 2000 onwards she lost to her only twice, once on rebound ace and once on clay. If Hingis had continued her head to head vs alot of players, Venus included, would have kept getting worse. Granted alot of that was Hingis was a super early bloomer who was already past her prime by 2001, thus her wise decision to retire.

Lindsay was a better player than Venus in years from 97-99. So it is little surprise she did better vs Hingis and most other top players than Venus did those years. And that is the period Hingis was playing the top players most along with 2000, and to a lesser degree 2001.
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post #6 of 138 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2011, 11:33 AM
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Re: Why was Lindsay a tougher match up for Martina than Venus was?

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Originally Posted by tennnisfannn View Post
perhaps ypu might want to focus on when the bulk of those beat downs happen. venus and martina are of the same age but Venus only started playing professionally after martina was established. Kinda like the h2h of Venus and Justine can be misleading. History will always show a far superior Venus but once Justine got established she had one more victory, too bad they didn't play often enough.
Head to heads are often misleading. Like Nadal's head to head with Federer the media loves to run away with when it is almost entirely based on a 12-2 head to head on clay. Heck Steffi Graf trails Jo Durie 4-3 in head to head, but lets be real to how that came about.
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post #7 of 138 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2011, 11:43 AM
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Re: Why was Lindsay a tougher match up for Martina than Venus was?

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Originally Posted by justineheninfan View Post
Head to heads are often misleading. Like Nadal's head to head with Federer the media loves to run away with when it is almost entirely based on a 12-2 head to head on clay. Heck Steffi Graf trails Jo Durie 4-3 in head to head, but lets be real to how that came about.
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post #8 of 138 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2011, 11:46 AM
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Re: Why was Lindsay a tougher match up for Martina than Venus was?

Different match-up...history shows that Vee HATES playing players who don't give her rythm....Pironkova, Jankovic, etc..whereas she does well against players who either wanna make it a hard-hitting contest or a track meet.

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post #9 of 138 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2011, 11:47 AM
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Re: Why was Lindsay a tougher match up for Martina than Venus was?

Against Hingis, who doesn't make a lot of errors herself, you have to be consistant. Venus was only really consistant 2000-2002 and in that timeframe she leads Hingis 4:1.
Davenport had as much power as Venus (but not qute the movement), but was more consistant, hence her better H2H with Hingis.
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post #10 of 138 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2011, 01:17 PM
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Re: Why was Lindsay a tougher match up for Martina than Venus was?

Venus' shots aren't as heavy as Lindsay's and I think she makes more errors than her, and Martina definately benefits from powerful erratic players, that's why she's always pwned mediocre players (top 50) who were much more powerful than her, or even good players with these characteristics, such as Schett (11-0)

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post #11 of 138 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2011, 01:47 PM
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Re: Why was Lindsay a tougher match up for Martina than Venus was?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennnisfannn View Post
perhaps ypu might want to focus on when the bulk of those beat downs happen. venus and martina are of the same age but Venus only started playing professionally after martina was established. Kinda like the h2h of Venus and Justine can be misleading. History will always show a far superior Venus but once Justine got established she had one more victory, too bad they didn't play often enough.
Good post! Prime Venus was superior to Hingis and Davenport. Prime Davenport was superior to Hingis. Prime Venus and Henin, too close to call. Prime Henin is superior to Davenport and Hingis.
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post #12 of 138 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2011, 02:03 PM
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Re: Why was Lindsay a tougher match up for Martina than Venus was?

Their first 14 matches came during Hingis' peak (1997-1999). In those matches Hingis led the head to head 9-5. From 2000 on Venus was 5-2 against her. It's just a matter of when their matches took place.

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post #13 of 138 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2011, 02:06 PM
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Re: Why was Lindsay a tougher match up for Martina than Venus was?

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Good post! Prime Venus was superior to Hingis and Davenport. Prime Davenport was superior to Hingis. Prime Venus and Henin, too close to call. Prime Henin is superior to Davenport and Hingis.
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post #14 of 138 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2011, 02:10 PM
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Re: Why was Lindsay a tougher match up for Martina than Venus was?

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Originally Posted by justineheninfan View Post
Prime Venus owned Hingis. From 2000 onwards she lost to her only twice, once on rebound ace and once on clay. If Hingis had continued her head to head vs alot of players, Venus included, would have kept getting worse. Granted alot of that was Hingis was a super early bloomer who was already past her prime by 2001, thus her wise decision to retire.

Lindsay was a better player than Venus in years from 97-99. So it is little surprise she did better vs Hingis and most other top players than Venus did those years. And that is the period Hingis was playing the top players most along with 2000, and to a lesser degree 2001.
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post #15 of 138 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2011, 02:26 PM
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Re: Why was Lindsay a tougher match up for Martina than Venus was?

davenport has the better technique, thus was better able to cope with all the spins and trickery hingis would throw at her. venus is a million times better athlete than davenport, but if you look at the H2H it tells you how good davenport was to give such an adavntage to her opponents as she did with her lack of movement.

if davenport hadn't been such a mental midget she would have 6 or 7 slams. the rest of her numbers, weeks at number 1, titles won, H2H's with all the greats of her generation ect put her up their with venus and henin. sadly even now she down plays how good she was even when commentating, a bit more belief and mental stick and she would have been a true great.

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