Causes of Choking and how to overcome it? - TennisForum.com
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 2011, 10:34 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
VeeJJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,079
                     
Question Causes of Choking and how to overcome it?

Thought this would be an interesting thread and well suited one considering the # of chokers we have on the tour.


Why do players choke? Cause they realize they can win and it would be good for their career so they freeze? They are terrified of winning? They can't believe they are actually in a position to win so they must fuck up? Why does the body react so badly to these things?

Has there been any players who had choking problems and over came them? Or any players who never had choking problems and now thats all they do?

What do you think are the best ways to overcome choking?

For me it seems the be the game changer of the tour. It is what separates the players from each other.

As far as examples go. I would say Venus is the best example of being a non choker to a choker.

I can't think of anyone who has over come choking though

Thoughts?

Jelena Jankovic
- She used to know how to play tennis...
Jumping over career opportunities since 2006...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
As her fans watch in awe at her ability to fuck that up...

Victoria Azarenka ~ Venus Williams
Maria Kirilenko ~ Petra Kvitova
VeeJJ is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 2011, 10:35 PM
MA5HA
 
Craig.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: La Belle Province
Posts: 33,793
                     
Re: Causes of Choking and how to overcome it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JankoGOAT View Post
Thought this would be an interesting thread and well suited one considering the # of chokers we have on the tour.


Why do players choke? Cause they realize they can win and it would be good for their career so they freeze? They are terrified of winning? They can't believe they are actually in a position to win so they must fuck up? Why does the body react so badly to these things?

Has there been any players who had choking problems and over came them? Or any players who never had choking problems and now thats all they do?

What do you think are the best ways to overcome choking?

For me it seems the be the game changer of the tour. It is what separates the players from each other.

As far as examples go. I would say Venus is the best example of being a non choker to a choker.

I can't think of anyone who has over come choking though

Thoughts?
Mauresmo somewhat.


Les reines de Paris.
Craig. is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 2011, 10:40 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
VeeJJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,079
                     
Re: Causes of Choking and how to overcome it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigster View Post
Mauresmo somewhat.
I guess I can see that. But then didn't she go right back to it after 2006?

Jelena Jankovic
- She used to know how to play tennis...
Jumping over career opportunities since 2006...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
As her fans watch in awe at her ability to fuck that up...

Victoria Azarenka ~ Venus Williams
Maria Kirilenko ~ Petra Kvitova
VeeJJ is offline  
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 2011, 10:44 PM
Senior Member
 
J4m3ka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,258
                     
Re: Causes of Choking and how to overcome it?

Venus is a great example of a mentally strong player morphing into a midget. She choked in the 08 USO and has been choking ever since. The tie-break meltdown vs Fiona was just hideous to watch having seen what she is capable of during her prime - a 2001 Venus would have blasted two unreturnables, not 2 puff balls which were horrendously out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Agassi
"But every sport improves dramatically every three-to-five years, and I think we've see that in the sport of tennis. These guys just keep getting better and better. There's no comparison between what guys are doing now to 10 years ago"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Agassi
"Listen, I could sit here and tell you that I'm the best of the best, but unfortunately, the best get better. That's just how it is. Speed, athleticism, change in technology, and why people don't come to the net anymore because of the angles that are created. It's a whole different set of circumstances out there"
J4m3ka is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 2011, 10:45 PM
Heaux
 
Break My Rapture's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 28,455
                     
Re: Causes of Choking and how to overcome it?

Loss of concentration.
I think most of the time it's because you look ahead too much and step away from the so called point by point attitude when you are nearing the finish line.

Also, once you choke for the first time, it'll be a factor popping up in your mind in upcoming matches as well (unless you're extremely tough mentally and you're able to focus directly).
Break My Rapture is offline  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 2011, 10:49 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,117
                     
Re: Causes of Choking and how to overcome it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JankoGOAT View Post
I guess I can see that. But then didn't she go right back to it after 2006?
No, she just took up a baseline style of play that she has used more before her tutelage under Courteau but at that point didn't suit her in the least and at least 30% of the tour could outplay her easily from there on a regular basis. Plus, I'd imagine she lost a bit of hunger from the game after she won Wimbledon and gained all her other achievements (and rightly so as she had hit the pinnacle, even if only for a short while). She never really struck me as being especially sad when she retired from the sport.
Bismarck. is offline  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 2011, 10:51 PM
country flag SVK
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
SVK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 27,877
                     
Re: Causes of Choking and how to overcome it?

Unfortunately Slovaks has this on the blood so we cant overcome it.

Dunno about others but seeing French and German Im starting to think that its genetic.
SVK is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 2011, 10:58 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
VeeJJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,079
                     
Re: Causes of Choking and how to overcome it?

I would say Clijster over came it, but then Sydney happened.

Jelena Jankovic
- She used to know how to play tennis...
Jumping over career opportunities since 2006...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
As her fans watch in awe at her ability to fuck that up...

Victoria Azarenka ~ Venus Williams
Maria Kirilenko ~ Petra Kvitova
VeeJJ is offline  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 2011, 11:06 PM
Senior Member
 
Mastodon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 889
                     
Re: Causes of Choking and how to overcome it?

Interesting article about the subject from the BBC sport website. Not really about tennis but the principe is the same.

The psychology of choking

The Champions League semi-finals are still a few days away, but the prospect of the dreaded penalty shoot-out is already looming.

Chelsea captain John Terry has admitted that it took months to come to terms with the spot-kick he missed in the Champions League final in 2008, when he slipped before making contact with the ball.

Former England defender Gareth Southgate will probably always be associated with his miss at the European Championship semi-final in 1996, when he shot with a woeful lack of conviction.

Both men have testified how treacherously difficult it is to score from 12 yards when you are shouldering the hopes of millions.

It is not the difficulty of the task - most top players invariably score during practice sessions - but the enormity of the moment. The problem is not ability but nerve. This, of course, is the essence of performance psychology.
John Terry slips while taking a penalty in the 2008 Champions League final Chelsea captain Terry slipped as he missed his penalty in 2008

The tendency to lose one's nerve - or "choke" - was seen in graphic fashion in the Masters at Augusta earlier this month. Rory McIlroy was within touching distance of the Green Jacket when he underwent a devastating implosion.

It was not just his woods and irons that deserted him, but his putting and chipping, too. For a while it was as if he had become a novice again.

Few of us have played international sport, but in a curious way we can all relate to the curse of choking. When we are interviewed for a job we don't care about, we are relaxed, confident and the answers flow.

But when we are interviewed for a job that means everything, that is when our mouth dries and our brain, all too often, stalls. We fluff our lines in precisely the same way McIlroy fluffed his drive on the 10th tee.

But why? Why are so many of us inclined to mess up at precisely the moment when messing up is most calamitous? Why are we so prone to fail when we most want to succeed?

For years the paradox of choking seemed incomprehensible to psychologists and sportsmen alike. It is only in recent years that neuroscientists have glimpsed the answers, and they are both intriguing and revelatory.

Consider what happens when you are learning a task, say driving a car. When you start out, you have to focus intently to move the gearstick while shifting the steering wheel and pushing the clutch. Indeed, at the beginning these tasks are so difficult to execute that the instructor starts you off in a car park.
South Africa batsmen Graeme Smith and Jacques Kallis South Africa's cricketers have been frequently labelled 'chokers' after collapsing in World Cups

But now consider what happens after hundreds of hours of practice. Now, you can perform these skills effortlessly, without any conscious control, so that you are able to arrive at your destination without even being aware of how you got there.

In effect, experts and novices use two completely different brain systems. Long practice enables experienced performers to encode a skill in implicit memory, and they perform almost without thinking about it.

This is called expert-induced amnesia. Novices, on the other hand, wield the explicit system, consciously monitoring what they are doing as they build the neural framework supporting the task.

But now suppose an expert were to suddenly find himself using the "wrong" system. It wouldn't matter how good he was because he would now be at the mercy of the explicit system.

The highly sophisticated skills encoded in the subconscious part of his brain would count for nothing. He would find himself striving for victory using neural pathways he last used as a novice.

This is the neurophysiology of choking. It is triggered when we get so anxious that we seize conscious control over a task that should be executed automatically.

That is why McIlroy's technique was so stilted - explicit monitoring was vying with implicit execution. The problem was not insufficient focus, but too much focus. Conscious monitoring had disrupted the smooth workings of the subconscious. He was, in a literal sense, a novice again.

This is why choking is so dramatic: it triggers a psychological metamorphosis. And this is why those slated to taken penalties in the semi-finals will be working as hard on their mental as their physical games.

There are many methods that can avert choking, but the ultimate objective can be summed up in one sentence. As the Nike ad puts it: "Just do it".
Mastodon is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 2011, 11:11 PM
Worshipping the bangs
 
miffedmax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Larsson's Player Forum
Posts: 55,736
                     
Re: Causes of Choking and how to overcome it?

Eating too big bites and not chewing properly.

Also, having me for a fan.

Max
Pass the duct tape and super glue. Lena's done broke my heart one last time.
Onward my LOB! Lena (ret.) Vika Vee TOB Caro Alexa Sabs Wicky Lesia Vania BMS Ekat Andi H. Jo-La Lena V KP2 Lil Bit Kiki Mini Mak Baby Veronika
V Squad, The LOB Elite: Vika, Venus and the Mad Viking of Norrland
Jo-La Duchess of Norrland and Bastad
Elena Viatcheslavovna Dementieva--Eternal Goddess of the Divine Bangs
miffedmax is offline  
post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 2011, 11:17 PM
Senior Member
 
MK Ultra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,348
                     
Re: Causes of Choking and how to overcome it?

Being stubburn and not search help is ceartenly not the answer.I'm obviously talking about Kiri. She somehow is against sports psycologists because she thinks either you have it or you don't.() What is there to loose?
Sigh

MKAI
ACEDDKDH
My GMT Profile Tumblr Flickr
MK Ultra is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome