The Case Against Caro Haters - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 481 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 2011, 03:29 AM Thread Starter
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The Case Against Caro Haters

I think it is most unfortunate that tennis has the terminology “unforced error” to describe a certain scoring play. The most troublesome aspect of the term is the super negative connotation. Now in some cases the negative connotation is justified. Example a ball lands midway between service line and base line with no particular speed or spin to make the return difficult and yet the player strikes the ball into the net; ergo clearly a true unforced error.

OK so we have another scenario; in an intense rally the player sees she can win the point if she hits the ball right on the base line as her opponent cannot get there in time. Now if the ball does hit the base line it is a winner but if it misses even as little as a millimeter it is a lost point and scored as an unforced error. The lost point of course is scored as an unforced error since the player had the option and clearly could have done so by aiming the ball say 6 inches within the baseline. (My apologies for mixing the measurement forms- I trust each reader can follow my distinctions). However had she done so her opponent could have arrived in time for a return ergo that is why she tried to hit the base line in the first place.

As I understand the focus of the criticisms of the Caro haters, it is centered on the statistical fact that she does not have many winners and ergo wins matches because her opponents make more UEs. I have seen Caro haters state exactly that in various threads herein. Just as an aside I’ve never understood that criticism on its face value- if you win such a match it is a legitimate win it is recorded as a win- you do not get an extra win because you hit more winners and the UEs were not a factor. But really to confront Caro haters in strategically terms is it wiser to try and hit the baseline and gamble you get it in or is it wiser to play a safer point when trying to hit a winner?

In reviewing the semi final match against Sharapova and the final match against Bartoli in the recent IW tourney, objectively one has to conclude that Caroline Wozniaki is a hell of a great tennis player with a sound game and a sound game plan. In the Sharapova match she won the first set 6-1 despite having only one winner. The sneers at such a statistic are not well founded. If one examines Maria’s UEs in totality in that set there were not too many give aways in UEs- most were as a result of trying for a winner or trying to up the pace to get to hit a winner. In fact despite losing 1-6 one can legitimately say Maria was playing fairly well and she was being trounced simply because Caro was so much better.

In the first game against Bartoli which Caro won at fifteen saw her hit three winners. Each winner was well within the lines- truly all were very safe winners. The point is considering the caliber of play in the WTA you seldom get the opportunity to hit a safe winner. Thus if you are determined to pursue such a strategy then obviously your wins will more often be as a result that your opponent has committed more UEs as opposed to you having more winners.

My final point to Caro haters: if you hate her because she is a blonde than at least you have a rational reason for hating her; she is a blonde. But if you hate her because her method of winning is unsound then you are out to lunch.
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post #2 of 481 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 2011, 03:54 AM
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Re: The Case Against Caro Haters

Don't you get it? Whoever is No.1 in the rankings is also enemy No.1 in this board. I noticed that the hatred here and the number of slams are inversely proportional for a top ranked player.

My only wish is that the Caro bashing will eventually soften and posters here sympathize with her when she free falls from the ranking.

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post #3 of 481 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 2011, 03:56 AM
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Re: The Case Against Caro Haters

Haters are not rational. Dont let them bother you.
Most just like to insult players they dont root for.
Caroline is holding 8 titles, 6 of them Premiers, and she doesnt defend a Premier until Rogers Cup, which is still 5 months away.
She might be holding 10 Premiers by then. She is a consistent high quality player.
The rest of the tour has to deal with that, so do fans of those players.

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post #4 of 481 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 2011, 03:56 AM
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Re: The Case Against Caro Haters

Quote:
Originally Posted by tkutsaar View Post
My final point to Caro haters: if you hate her because she is a blonde than at least you have a rational reason for hating her; she is a blonde. But if you hate her because her method of winning is unsound then you are out to lunch.

I didn't read the whole post but I found that to be funny
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post #5 of 481 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 2011, 04:03 AM
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Re: The Case Against Caro Haters

Tl;dr

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post #6 of 481 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 2011, 04:05 AM
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Re: The Case Against Caro Haters

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Originally Posted by tkutsaar View Post
My final point to Caro haters: if you hate her because she is a blonde than at least you have a rational reason for hating her; she is a blonde. But if you hate her because her method of winning is unsound then you are out to lunch.


Nobody hated Kim, Steffi and Maria because they were blonde.

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post #7 of 481 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 2011, 04:17 AM
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Re: The Case Against Caro Haters

Haters will be haters. Nuff said.
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post #8 of 481 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 2011, 04:22 AM
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Re: The Case Against Caro Haters

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Originally Posted by thegreendestiny View Post


Nobody hated Kim, Steffi and Maria because they were blonde.

Oh God. I don't think the sarcasm in that post could have been any more obvious.

I've said on here before that most of her hatred on here stems from the fans of so called 'better players' who she has beaten , but those who go for more winners and this fixation with winners gives fans of those players a false sense of entitlement , that their favourite 'deserves' the win. They seem to think keeping the ball in play means 'not doing anything' , when they cannot see the obvious irony , since it is the mere fact that their favourite could not keep the ball in play which meant that they lost against the Woz. They are as brainless as their favourite players.
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post #9 of 481 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 2011, 04:47 AM
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Re: The Case Against Caro Haters

Nobody hated Kim lol.
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post #10 of 481 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 2011, 05:20 AM
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Re: The Case Against Caro Haters

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Originally Posted by tkutsaar View Post
My final point to Caro haters: if you hate her because she is a blonde than at least you have a rational reason for hating her; she is a blonde. But if you hate her because her method of winning is unsound then you are out to lunch.
She's hated not because her method of winning is unsound, but because it's not aesthetically pleasing.

Given time, she can set-up some nice plays though.
This is her as a 16 year old, playing Hingis.


A single flow'r he sent me, since we met./All tenderly his messenger he chose;
Deep-hearted, pure, with scented dew still wet - One perfect rose.
I knew the language of the floweret;/'My fragile leaves,' it said, 'his heart enclose.'
Love long has taken for his amulet/One perfect rose.
Why is it no one ever sent me yet/One perfect limousine, do you suppose?
Ah no, it's always just my luck to get/One perfect rose.

Last edited by moby; Mar 23rd, 2011 at 05:42 AM.
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post #11 of 481 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 2011, 05:23 AM
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Re: The Case Against Caro Haters

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Tl;dr
Ikr
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post #12 of 481 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 2011, 05:33 AM
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Re: The Case Against Caro Haters

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Originally Posted by moby View Post
She's hated not because her method of winning is unsound, but because it's not aesthetically pleasing.

Given time, she can set-up some nice plays though.
This is her as a 16/17 year old, playing Hingis.

That court could make anyone look good

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post #13 of 481 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 2011, 06:26 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The Case Against Caro Haters

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She's hated not because her method of winning is unsound, but because it's not aesthetically pleasing...


Yes I have seen that sentiment expressed before and that is just a croc. To be able to return what would be a winner against most other players is to my mind a much more spectacular skill than smashing an easy putaway. In the final against Bartoli, Caro won three points on unbelievable returns; one of them in the final game that brought the score to 30-30. Caro returned a smash from Marion that was simply breathtaking.
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post #14 of 481 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 2011, 06:39 AM
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Re: The Case Against Caro Haters

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Originally Posted by tkutsaar View Post
Yes I have seen that sentiment expressed before and that is just a croc. To be able to return what would be a winner against most other players is to my mind a much more spectacular skill than smashing an easy putaway. In the final against Bartoli, Caro won three points on unbelievable returns; one of them in the final game that brought the score to 30-30. Caro returned a smash from Marion that was simply breathtaking.
That was indeed a good get, but there are players who make incredible retrievals look better than Caro does.
They are also capable of amazing shot-making, which is very different from "smashing an easy putaway".
Caroline Wozniacki just has a slightly awkward way of hitting the ball. Turning the body and uncoiling it is ideal for hitting a heavy ball, but the way she does it seems a tad uncoordinated, almost as though she's flinging her torso forward. And that's just her groundstrokes.

I suggest you watch more tennis if you've not seen these players. Justine Henin, Kim Clijsters, Serena Williams, Venus Williams are all good places to start with.

A single flow'r he sent me, since we met./All tenderly his messenger he chose;
Deep-hearted, pure, with scented dew still wet - One perfect rose.
I knew the language of the floweret;/'My fragile leaves,' it said, 'his heart enclose.'
Love long has taken for his amulet/One perfect rose.
Why is it no one ever sent me yet/One perfect limousine, do you suppose?
Ah no, it's always just my luck to get/One perfect rose.

Last edited by moby; Mar 23rd, 2011 at 06:45 AM.
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post #15 of 481 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 2011, 06:53 AM
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Re: The Case Against Caro Haters

She needs a new fist pump. Then her game would be alright to watch.
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