Why can't a 'pusher" be a champion? - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 100 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2011, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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Why can't a 'pusher" be a champion?

With all the constant berating of poor Caroline Wozniaki that shes just a pusher, tennis is dead, she shouldnt beat anyone etc etc etc, just wondering what peoples problems were around here.

Since when is it a rule that you can only play tennis to hit for constant winners as a ball basher?

Lets look at Chris Evert who had the highest winning percentage of any player male or female, she whould be considered a "pusher" by today's standards, called a counter puncher back then.

To play consistent shots is a very winning tactic in tennis and has been shown to be so by many champions. I was there live at Wozniackis match, she may have not hit a lot of winners but her strokes were deep and penetrating and she hit the right shot at the right time.

If her style is so wrong how come she keeps winning?
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post #2 of 100 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2011, 01:36 PM
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Re: Why can't a 'pusher" be a champion?

B/c a pusher doesn't exist. it's an ignorant and lazy term that doesn't really mean anything.

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Originally Posted by darrinbaker00 View Post
When will you learn that "pushers" never make it past the club level, let alone #1 on the WTA computer? Will it be too late?
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post #3 of 100 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2011, 01:40 PM
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Re: Why can't a 'pusher" be a champion?

Because it's boring and as spectators we don't just want champions who win ugly by default, rather at least try to put on a semi-interesting show for us to watch. You know, because we're spectators.
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post #4 of 100 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2011, 01:43 PM
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Re: Why can't a 'pusher" be a champion?

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Originally Posted by FlameOn View Post
Because it's boring and as spectators we don't just want champions who win ugly by default.
Exactly. You could hear it today in the Match between Wozniacki and Schiavone. The Crowd was cheering for Franny, because she has such an entertaining style and game with lots of variety and emotions. Wozniacki on the other hand was so boring to watch. Ok she won, but I think the audience prefers spectacular winners and lots of variety. That's what Fran showed and why her game and personality is so popular these days.

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post #5 of 100 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2011, 01:44 PM
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Re: Why can't a 'pusher" be a champion?

Evert wasn't a pusher though. The problem with Caro's game is that the match always seems to be on the other player's racquet. She rarely has bad days, always plays @ 100%, which is enough to win non slam titles and beat 99% of players, but when the other player raises level (eg, ball basher getting hot, variety player switching to a different plan etc), she appears helpless, which can be attributed to all her recent slam losses. She kind of reminds me of Murray on ATP - capable aggressor, but chooses to counterpunch, which doesn't work against truly good players who will seek to be aggressive on important points.
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post #6 of 100 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2011, 01:47 PM
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Re: Why can't a 'pusher" be a champion?

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Originally Posted by Claycourter View Post
Evert wasn't a pusher though. The problem with Caro's game is that the match always seems to be on the other player's racquet. She rarely has bad days, always plays @ 100%, which is enough to win non slam titles and beat 99% of players, but when the other player raises level (eg, ball basher getting hot, variety player switching to a different plan etc), she appears helpless, which can be attributed to all her recent slam losses. She kind of reminds me of Murray on ATP - capable aggressor, but chooses to counterpunch, which doesn't work against truly good players who will seek to be aggressive on important points.
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post #7 of 100 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2011, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Why can't a 'pusher" be a champion?

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Originally Posted by Claycourter View Post
Evert wasn't a pusher though. The problem with Caro's game is that the match always seems to be on the other player's racquet. She rarely has bad days, always plays @ 100%, which is enough to win non slam titles and beat 99% of players, but when the other player raises level (eg, ball basher getting hot, variety player switching to a different plan etc), she appears helpless, which can be attributed to all her recent slam losses. She kind of reminds me of Murray on ATP - capable aggressor, but chooses to counterpunch, which doesn't work against truly good players who will seek to be aggressive on important points.
I assure you if you look back at Everts matches she would be considered a "pusher" by todays standards, its just her winners came from the fact serve and volleyers were coming at her and she had to pass them. No one serves and volleys today so "pushers" dont have a target.

I guess the entertainment to the crowds comes in the contrast of a flaymboyant player like Schiavone, a ball basher like serena or a so called pusher like Wozniacki fighting it out against each other, it provides variety.

Tennis is a difficult game and people can produce a lot of errors, if your game is consistent and you make few errors, its a great winning strategy.
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post #8 of 100 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2011, 01:53 PM
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Re: Why can't a 'pusher" be a champion?

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Originally Posted by FlameOn View Post
Because it's boring and as spectators we don't just want champions who win ugly by default, rather at least try to put on a semi-interesting show for us to watch. You know, because we're spectators.
And since when where spectators the one's who decided who champions were?
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post #9 of 100 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2011, 01:54 PM
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Re: Why can't a 'pusher" be a champion?

Wozniacki is improving in taking initiative. She surely has it in her racket (good serve, deep and precise hitting, mental strength, variety) to take a slam.

But not yet.
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post #10 of 100 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2011, 01:55 PM
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Re: Why can't a 'pusher" be a champion?

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Originally Posted by FlameOn View Post
Because it's boring and as spectators we don't just want champions who win ugly by default, rather at least try to put on a semi-interesting show for us to watch. You know, because we're spectators.
Caro is pretty popular with the crowds. They were rooting for her last night

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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrinbaker00 View Post
When will you learn that "pushers" never make it past the club level, let alone #1 on the WTA computer? Will it be too late?
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post #11 of 100 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2011, 01:55 PM
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Re: Why can't a 'pusher" be a champion?

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Originally Posted by Ingokoer View Post
Exactly. You could hear it today in the Match between Wozniacki and Schiavone. The Crowd was cheering for Franny, because she has such an entertaining style and game with lots of variety and emotions. Wozniacki on the other hand was so boring to watch. Ok she won, but I think the audience prefers spectacular winners and lots of variety. That's what Fran showed and why her game and personality is so popular these days.
Thats the problem nowdays. The most people in this forum like watching tennis cause spectacular winners, the dresses and so on, pathetic. People who understand tennis knows that Wozniackis gamestyle is hard to play and needs a great physique. And a match with 50 UE is way more ugly than a match with only 10 UE.
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post #12 of 100 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2011, 02:00 PM
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Re: Why can't a 'pusher" be a champion?

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Originally Posted by renstar View Post
With all the constant berating of poor Caroline Wozniaki that shes just a pusher, tennis is dead, she shouldnt beat anyone etc etc etc, just wondering what peoples problems were around here.

Since when is it a rule that you can only play tennis to hit for constant winners as a ball basher?

Lets look at Chris Evert who had the highest winning percentage of any player male or female, she whould be considered a "pusher" by today's standards, called a counter puncher back then.

To play consistent shots is a very winning tactic in tennis and has been shown to be so by many champions. I was there live at Wozniackis match, she may have not hit a lot of winners but her strokes were deep and penetrating and she hit the right shot at the right time.

If her style is so wrong how come she keeps winning?
What Claycourter said - the match is pretty much always on her opponent's racquet. And you're wrong, Margaret Court has the highest winning percentage. Evert is second.
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post #13 of 100 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2011, 02:01 PM
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Re: Why can't a 'pusher" be a champion?

this is like MTF 4 years ago.

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post #14 of 100 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2011, 02:03 PM
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Re: Why can't a 'pusher" be a champion?

I think champions go for it in big moments..look at fran for example in that tiebreak in RG..I don't think wozniacki would do that

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post #15 of 100 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2011, 02:30 PM
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Re: Why can't a 'pusher" be a champion?

I personally just don't like Baby Woz's style of play whether it's classified as "pushing", "counterpunching", "moonballing" or whatever. For me, I'd rather see a player hit the shots that win the points, outright winners or shots that force errors. Looping the ball around to get back in position on a constant basis is nap-inducing. It's great shot selection when it's a crazy point but constantly it's just dry. I don't think I've ever watched Caro and has said "wow, what a shot" like I have with dozens of other players on tour.

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