Who was greater? - TennisForum.com

View Poll Results: so yeah,...
Sabatini 30 50.00%
Sukova 18 30.00%
it doesnt matter ... 8 13.33%
this is the wrong forum-section for this... 4 6.67%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2010, 12:10 AM Thread Starter
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Who was greater?

i guess they played in the same era...
~

Helena Sukova or Gabriela Sabatini ~

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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2010, 12:18 AM
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Re: Who was greater?

....really?

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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2010, 12:37 AM
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Re: Who was greater?

Errr..
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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2010, 12:55 AM
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Re: Who was greater?

Sukova. Sabatini is obviusly the more famous,and much the better singles player, but that wasn't the question. Actually, we've acquired the perfect example of how much does one singles slam dwarfs a bunch of doubles slams. If one singles slam is worth that much, Schiavone is greater than Zvereva.

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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2010, 01:00 AM
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Re: Who was greater?

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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2010, 01:05 AM
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Re: Who was greater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana View Post
Sukova. Sabatini is obviusly the more famous,and much the better singles player, but that wasn't the question. Actually, we've acquired the perfect example of how much does one singles slam dwarfs a bunch of doubles slams. If one singles slam is worth that much, Schiavone is greater than Zvereva.
Sabatini has the edge, but I wouldn't say she was much better. Sukova still reached more grand slam finals than Sabatini.

Sukova for the poll no question.
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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2010, 01:07 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Who was greater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana View Post
Sukova. Sabatini is obviusly the more famous,and much the better singles player, but that wasn't the question. Actually, we've acquired the perfect example of how much does one singles slam dwarfs a bunch of doubles slams. If one singles slam is worth that much, Schiavone is greater than Zvereva.
was sabatini MUCH better or slightly better(she played in more singles major finals according to the ~Wiki~, but yeah' i agree with your points. thats why i brought it up...i had no idea Sukova was such a noteable player. I'd heard the name before but...

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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2010, 01:27 AM
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Re: Who was greater?

Besides her singles achievements, Sukova had fourteen grand slam doubles titles.

In 1993 at the US Open, Sukova took the Womens Doubles Title, the Mixed doubles title, and was the losing singles finalist to Steffi. Amazing achievement.

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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2010, 01:31 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Who was greater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xan View Post
Besides her singles achievements, Sukova had fourteen grand slam doubles titles.

In 1993 at the US Open, Sukova took the Womens Doubles Title, the Mixed doubles title, and was the losing singles finalist to Steffi. Amazing achievement.

*goes to check Wiki to see if martina (eitehr one) completed the triple-feat*

edit: Navratilova did it at the '87 US Open!!!!

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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2010, 02:05 AM
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Re: Who was greater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by omoruyi View Post
i guess they played in the same era...
~

Helena Sukova or Gabriela Sabatini ~
Sukova was a very gifted player no doubt. I think Sabatini´s singles carreer >> Sukova. But at the same time Sukova´s doubles carreer was >>>> than Sabatini´s....

I would take Sabatini´s carreer in singles over Sukova´s doubles´s.

This would be like saying Paola Suarez >>> Sabatini because of her doubles sucess. Sorry but Singles >>>> Doubles....

Still Sukova´s 1993 Usopen was simply amazing..

Gabriela Sabatini 2006 HOF
18 Grand Slam SF´s, Won 27 titles, 1 GS Sin, 1 GS in Dubs,2 Masters
Sabatini vs Martinez ?
Seasons in the top ten: Sabatini 10 Conchita 9
Straight Seasons in the top ten: Sabatini 10 Conchita 6
Seasons in the top 5: Sabatini 6 Conchita 5
Straight seasons in the top 5: Sabatini 6 Conchita 4
Tier II and above titles
Sabatini 24 Martinez 17
Record at the Masters
Sabatini has 2 titles 2 Runner up and 3 SF
Martinez has 0 titles, 0 RU, and 0 Sf
Record against the best players
Sabatini 40% Martinez 21%
Head to Head
Sabatini leads 9-6 over Martinez
FWTT Hard 111(111 + ny)Carpet 104(104 + ny)Clay 107(107 + 4) Grass 100(100 ny)
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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2010, 04:17 AM
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Re: Who was greater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spencercarlos View Post
Sukova was a very gifted player no doubt. I think Sabatini´s singles carreer >> Sukova. But at the same time Sukova´s doubles carreer was >>>> than Sabatini´s....

I would take Sabatini´s carreer in singles over Sukova´s doubles´s.

This would be like saying Paola Suarez >>> Sabatini because of her doubles sucess. Sorry but Singles >>>> Doubles....

Still Sukova´s 1993 Usopen was simply amazing..
Yes Sabatini's singles career >> Sukova's. Granted.
and yes Sukova's doubles career >>>> Sabatini's.

But I have to disagree on the third part saying that calling Sukova's career better than Sabatini's is like saying Paola Suarez's career is better than Sabatini's.

This is obviously because Sukova's singles career >>>> Suarez's.
While Sabatini does have an edge singles wise it certainly is not a huge edge at all. It really depends just how much one weights the doubles as to whether that tips the balance. But as the difference in singles career's is fairly close it doesn't require one to be giving doubles as strong a regard as singles for that weighting to make a difference.

This is actually one of those who "is/was greater" polls that's really quite a clever one in that I don't think there is a clear cut answer. It is much like Sanchez Vicario v Davenport where one can make a reasonable good case for both girls and it really does come to a matter of opinion based on how an individual bases numerous different factors. Some of these "who is greater" polls are no brainers. This one is not.

The way I personally would weigh all the criteria I would have Sukova ahead but by a very small margin. But I suspect slightly more will have Sabatini ahead although, again, I suspect for most, by a small margin. Either way, it comes down to how each individual weighs different criteria, and also, considering how close they are, how much one likes each player personally and remembers each player will make a difference with a lot of people too. In other words this is another toughy was no easy simple answer.

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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2010, 04:46 AM
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Re: Who was greater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shvedbarilescu View Post
This is obviously because Sukova's singles career >>>> Suarez's.
While Sabatini does have an edge singles wise it certainly is not a huge edge at all
Yeah Sukova >>> Suarez in singles, with a lot of slam finals... but..
Sabatini has 1 GS win in Singles, 2 YEC wins, 2 YEC RU... 27 Titles..
Sukova has 0 GS wins in singles 0 YEC wins, 0 YEC RU, 10 titles mostly MM..... sorry but you can argue that they are somehow close? ...

Lets not even talk about rankings where Gaby was a consistent performer top 10 player for most of her carreer, top 5 for half of her carreer between 1988 and 1993, and briefly in 1995, 18 grand slam semifinals. Sukova was a consistent performer as well and despite 4 GS finals, which is a great result for her, her most consistent results at slams were QF-R16, while for Sabatini were SF-Qf...

I think there is a big difference between a consistent top ten/top 5 player and a top 15/top 20 player which Sukova was for most of her carreer.

Gabriela Sabatini 2006 HOF
18 Grand Slam SF´s, Won 27 titles, 1 GS Sin, 1 GS in Dubs,2 Masters
Sabatini vs Martinez ?
Seasons in the top ten: Sabatini 10 Conchita 9
Straight Seasons in the top ten: Sabatini 10 Conchita 6
Seasons in the top 5: Sabatini 6 Conchita 5
Straight seasons in the top 5: Sabatini 6 Conchita 4
Tier II and above titles
Sabatini 24 Martinez 17
Record at the Masters
Sabatini has 2 titles 2 Runner up and 3 SF
Martinez has 0 titles, 0 RU, and 0 Sf
Record against the best players
Sabatini 40% Martinez 21%
Head to Head
Sabatini leads 9-6 over Martinez
FWTT Hard 111(111 + ny)Carpet 104(104 + ny)Clay 107(107 + 4) Grass 100(100 ny)
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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2010, 05:42 AM
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Re: Who was greater?

wow, 4 GS finals and no title, too bad for sukova
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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2010, 07:33 AM
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Re: Who was greater?

Sabatini.

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Venus and Serena Williams
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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2010, 09:17 AM
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Re: Who was greater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spencercarlos View Post
Yeah Sukova >>> Suarez in singles, with a lot of slam finals... but..
Sabatini has 1 GS win in Singles, 2 YEC wins, 2 YEC RU... 27 Titles..
Sukova has 0 GS wins in singles 0 YEC wins, 0 YEC RU, 10 titles mostly MM..... sorry but you can argue that they are somehow close? ...

Lets not even talk about rankings where Gaby was a consistent performer top 10 player for most of her carreer, top 5 for half of her carreer between 1988 and 1993, and briefly in 1995, 18 grand slam semifinals. Sukova was a consistent performer as well and despite 4 GS finals, which is a great result for her, her most consistent results at slams were QF-R16, while for Sabatini were SF-Qf...

I think there is a big difference between a consistent top ten/top 5 player and a top 15/top 20 player which Sukova was for most of her carreer.
I am afraid that is something of a misrepresentation of Sukova's career. She did actually finish in the top 10 for six consecutive seasons which is actually pretty good. In Grand Slams she certainly was indeed roughly one round less good that Gabi, hence Sabatini's 18 Grand Slam semis vs 17 Grand Slam quarters for Sukova. Yes, Sabatini did have a very substantially better singles career. I don't think anyone could argue that, but Sukova's singles career was still a highly successful one, comparable with that of Elena Dementieva's current career.

Obviously however this debate only comes into it's own when one starts to take account of Sukova's doubles career which takes in some 73 titles including 14 in Grand Slams. This is a lot. How much weight one puts on a players doubles success when comparing players is very much up to the individual. Some people give it little value, others give it a very substantial value.

For me personally I certainly don't give anything like as much value to a doubles career as I do a singles career but when that doubles career is as good as Sukova's it does make a difference and for me in this instance it does just give her the overall edge over Sabatini. But I don't deny this is based on the weight I personally chose to give Sukova's doubles career when comparing the players. Were I to give Sukova's doubles career even a small fraction less value I would have then given my nod to Sabatini. It is awfully close for me.

Without question, it is only on the basis of Sukova's doubles success that this debate exists at all because obviously if only Sabatini's and Sukova's singles careers are to be taken into account Sabatini is miles ahead and this ceases to be something that even warrants a debate. Only a fool or someone of enourmous bias would even attempt to argue Sabatini didn't have the better singles career.

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