Do you think "pushers" are respected enough for their style of play? - TennisForum.com

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post #1 of 140 (permalink) Old Oct 17th, 2009, 08:35 AM Thread Starter
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Do you think "pushers" are respected enough for their style of play?

I know it is an overworked subject. I mean, i'm not a fan watching their style of play, but, "pushing" must be a difficult style of play to enforce. Should ballbashers deserve more respect because they come up with the better shots? Or do the players you respect have a mix of the two? Players that enforce both styles of play have entered the top echelons of tennis so why do some people believe that a pusher is not a real player?

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post #2 of 140 (permalink) Old Oct 17th, 2009, 09:22 AM
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Re: Do you think "pushers" are respected enough for their style of play?

From me? Yes.

From the forum as a whole? Definately not.
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post #3 of 140 (permalink) Old Oct 17th, 2009, 10:23 AM
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Re: Do you think "pushers" are respected enough for their style of play?

I respect all kinds of style of play too.
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post #4 of 140 (permalink) Old Oct 17th, 2009, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Do you think "pushers" are respected enough for their style of play?

I'm not blaming anyone.

It just seems to have become a popular thing on TF.

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post #5 of 140 (permalink) Old Oct 17th, 2009, 10:29 AM
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Re: Do you think "pushers" are respected enough for their style of play?

Well, what some people call pushing, isn't- imho.


And what they say isn't, IS.

For example, many say that Hingis pushed. I think that's dead wrong.

I think a distinction needs to be made between "Pusher" and "Counter Puncher." Hingis was a Counter-puncher. She used other peoples pace and tactical errors to EVENTUALLY go for her shots.

A pusher just sits back and waits for UNforced errors. It certainly is a valid style of play. I just HATE it. I prefer power and athleticism with some variety in there now and then.

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post #6 of 140 (permalink) Old Oct 17th, 2009, 11:15 AM
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Re: Do you think "pushers" are respected enough for their style of play?

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Originally Posted by Wayn77 View Post
Ex-professionals working in the world's media and commentary boxes - overwhelmingly YES.
Agree. And when these so called "pushers" get results - they should be respected. But as far as a number of posters in this forum goes - NO they aren't respected enough. A so called "pusher" may just may "push" a whole match - and if they win doing that - good luck to them. But it is far more likely that the haters have just shut their eyes and ignored it when the "pusher" constructs a point herself. More often I suspect the hater hasn't even watched the match but just blindly looks at the Winners column in the stats when they call a player a "boring pusher".

A lot of posters just look at the stats and the Winners and Unforced Errors. Well hello - in case it hasn't sunk in to these posters - not every point is a winner or an unforced error. What about these other points:

Let T(p) = total points won by a pusher
Let W(p) = winners by a pusher
Let UE(o) = Unforced Errors by the opponent
Let N(p) = The other (Neglected) points won by a pusher

N(p) = T(p) - { W(p) + UE(o) } and is never specifically given in the stats.
These points could be for a number of things including when the so called "pusher" constructs a point and finishes with a shot that the opponent just reaches but can't control. Against a player with a weapon - it might have been too fast for the opponent to get to and been an outright winner. But the end result is the same and just as enjoyable to watch.

A low Winners and UE count will tend to indicate a player who is consistent and does a lot of pushing. But it in no way means that's all the player does. And there's been plenty of matches I've watched with so called "pushers" that have been really enjoyable.

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post #7 of 140 (permalink) Old Oct 17th, 2009, 11:25 AM
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Re: Do you think "pushers" are respected enough for their style of play?

It's a valid way to play, and nothing to be ashamed of. But it will only get you so far, because if your opponent is playing towards their highest level you simply won't be able to beat them. A style of play that rests almost entirely on how well your opponent is playing seems a bizzare option at Grand Slam level for example. Pushers do not win slams.

To answer the OP's question, I don't think it's that pushing isn't respected, It just doesn't have as much respect as other styles of play.
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post #8 of 140 (permalink) Old Oct 17th, 2009, 12:53 PM
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Re: Do you think "pushers" are respected enough for their style of play?

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Originally Posted by Cookie Power View Post
It's a valid way to play, and nothing to be ashamed of. But it will only get you so far, because if your opponent is playing towards their highest level you simply won't be able to beat them. A style of play that rests almost entirely on how well your opponent is playing seems a bizzare option at Grand Slam level for example. Pushers do not win slams.

To answer the OP's question, I don't think it's that pushing isn't respected, It just doesn't have as much respect as other styles of play.
Agreed. Good post. I like the part about that slam winning especially. True champions are players like the WS and Sharapova who go out and win their matches on their rackets rather than leaving it up to their opponents to decide the outcome.

I don't think spectators (us) have to respect pushing at all. Most of us watch tennis hoping to be entertained, and pushing is never going to do that.

On the other hand, maybe the players don't respect Wozniacki (I'm assuming this thread is about her) enough. Read all the online tips on how to beat pushers, and one of the biggest things they stress is respecting them. I'd say this is true considering some of the comments a few players and coaches have made about her and her game-style.
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post #9 of 140 (permalink) Old Oct 17th, 2009, 01:37 PM
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Re: Do you think "pushers" are respected enough for their style of play?

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Originally Posted by Cookie Power View Post
It's a valid way to play, and nothing to be ashamed of. But it will only get you so far, because if your opponent is playing towards their highest level you simply won't be able to beat them. A style of play that rests almost entirely on how well your opponent is playing seems a bizzare option at Grand Slam level for example. Pushers do not win slams.
There is some truth to that. On the other hand defensive players (I son't use the word pusher which is meant to sound like an insult) are often good at exploiting another players' weaknesses. Besides, if you don't have the physical strenght of a Serena Williams or a Sharapova trying to outhit them when they are up to par is always going to be a losing tactic.

As for whether they are respected enough, well, if you are good at what you're doing respect will automatically come your way. Not from everyone of course, but the same thing can be said about the hard hitters (the so-called "ball bashers"). There's no way a player is able to please everyone out there. But all that doesn't really matter. It isn't about what this or that fan might say about your style of play but about what the record books will show when your career is over.
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post #10 of 140 (permalink) Old Oct 17th, 2009, 04:24 PM
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Re: Do you think "pushers" are respected enough for their style of play?

Wozniacki has a legion of fans, although it is questionable it's actually for her style of play.

Her loss to Stosur is just plain bad though.

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post #11 of 140 (permalink) Old Oct 17th, 2009, 04:33 PM
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Re: Do you think "pushers" are respected enough for their style of play?

As for whether they are respected enough, well, if you are good at what you're doing respect will automatically come your way. Not from everyone of course, but the same thing can be said about the hard hitters (the so-called "ball bashers"). There's no way a player is able to please everyone out there. But all that doesn't really matter. It isn't about what this or that fan might say about your style of play but about what the record books will show when your career is over.

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post #12 of 140 (permalink) Old Oct 17th, 2009, 07:55 PM
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Re: Do you think "pushers" are respected enough for their style of play?

You dont choose being a pusher, right? I dont think example Jankovic or Hingis could have been a good ballbasher, they dont have the right power plus they are one of the best defensive players ever. A tennisplayer should play with their strongest weaopen, and for wozniaki (hingis, jankovic) its the defensive game, so why dont just accept their game, cause a match between a ballbasher and a defensive players is almost fun every time..
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post #13 of 140 (permalink) Old Oct 17th, 2009, 08:00 PM
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Re: Do you think "pushers" are respected enough for their style of play?

I'm over it. Whoever uses the word pusher to describe a top player obviously has a tennis IQ below 50, and they've never played a "pusher" in real life.

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post #14 of 140 (permalink) Old Oct 17th, 2009, 08:06 PM
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Re: Do you think "pushers" are respected enough for their style of play?

The argument is in direct objection to the fact that 'brainless ball bashers' don't get ANY respect. The amount of time i've seen that expression on this board, is nauseating. Totally ignoring the courageous aspects of that style of play, no matter how many errors are produced.

I don't use the word pusher, but they're certainly players on tour who are completely passive, almost to the point of non-participation
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post #15 of 140 (permalink) Old Oct 17th, 2009, 08:27 PM
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Re: Do you think "pushers" are respected enough for their style of play?

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Originally Posted by The Dawntreader View Post
The argument is in direct objection to the fact that 'brainless ball bashers' don't get ANY respect. The amount of time i've seen that expression on this board, is nauseating. Totally ignoring the courageous aspects of that style of play, no matter how many errors are produced.

I don't use the word pusher, but they're certainly players on tour who are completely passive, almost to the point of non-participation


It's just as valid to hate ball-bashing as it is pushing. Both are overreactions, but you'll never change it.
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