If the rankings system is not working now. Then how did it work for so long? - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2009, 08:05 PM Thread Starter
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If the rankings system is not working now. Then how did it work for so long?

Many people are saying the rankings system is flawed....yada yada yada...you know the story

But why is it not working now....only these last few years I've heard people complaining....

Please...help me understand
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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2009, 08:07 PM
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Re: If the rankings system is not working now. Then how did it work for so long?

No one complained about the ranking system when Justine was #1. Could it be that players need to play well at other tournaments outside of slams to truly be #1?????

Nahhhhh. Just win slams and the magic ranking gods will make you #1. Yay Serena!
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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2009, 08:07 PM
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Re: If the rankings system is not working now. Then how did it work for so long?

People have been complaining since they changed the system during the past decade, not just in the past few years.

hunger, desire, fire..........
stength, power, precision.........
talent, court sense, smartness........
no i am not talking about a racket or a squirrel, i am talking about the former and future number 1..............
martina hingis!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good Luck Justine Henin Hardenne, Venus Williams, Maria Sharapova, Mary Pierce, and any of my other favorites that I might have forgotten about at this moment.
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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2009, 08:11 PM
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Re: If the rankings system is not working now. Then how did it work for so long?

Hingis, Davenport, Clijsters, Mauresmo
everyone complained when they got to #1 w/ no slams.
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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2009, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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Re: If the rankings system is not working now. Then how did it work for so long?

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Originally Posted by franny View Post
People have been complaining since they changed the system during the past decade, not just in the past few years.
O right Franny...now this I didn't know...they changed it...what did they change?

I recall when it was quite difficult to get to #1
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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2009, 08:14 PM
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Re: If the rankings system is not working now. Then how did it work for so long?

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Originally Posted by Dunlop1 View Post
No one complained about the ranking system when Justine was #1. Could it be that players need to play well at other tournaments outside of slams to truly be #1?????

Nahhhhh. Just win slams and the magic ranking gods will make you #1. Yay Serena!
Um . . . have you ever thought about it this way. No one complained about the number 1 ranking when Justine was number 1 because she won BOTH slams AND outside tournaments. Has Dinara done that? No. So why is it bad to complain about Dinara being number 1. She has won like what, three or four tournaments? She has no grand slams. So of course people will complain. Let's compare Safina to Serena this year. Each has won TWO tournaments. Safina got Rome and Madrid. People act as if Dinara has done that well outside of slams, but the girl has won only two tournaments.

hunger, desire, fire..........
stength, power, precision.........
talent, court sense, smartness........
no i am not talking about a racket or a squirrel, i am talking about the former and future number 1..............
martina hingis!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good Luck Justine Henin Hardenne, Venus Williams, Maria Sharapova, Mary Pierce, and any of my other favorites that I might have forgotten about at this moment.
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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2009, 08:16 PM
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Re: If the rankings system is not working now. Then how did it work for so long?

Serena has had 3 slams and not been #1 -- Summer of 2003. In fact, she even had Miami, 3 Tier IIs and a YEC Final. She was still not #1.

Clijsters played and won everything else. Same goes for Safina. The tour has to mean something.

Serena will get back to #1 this summer as long as she wins one of the Premier 5's. Safina still has a sizable lead where even if she falls flat on her face this summer, Serena will need to do something.
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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2009, 08:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: If the rankings system is not working now. Then how did it work for so long?

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Originally Posted by franny View Post
Um . . . have you ever thought about it this way. No one complained about the number 1 ranking when Justine was number 1 because she won BOTH slams AND outside tournaments. Has Dinara done that? No. So why is it bad to complain about Dinara being number 1. She has won like what, three or four tournaments? She has no grand slams. So of course people will complain. Let's compare Safina to Serena this year. Each has won TWO tournaments. Safina got Rome and Madrid. People act as if Dinara has done that well outside of slams, but the girl has won only two tournaments.
But it's not Dinara's fault. She's only filling the rankings criteria set by the WTA officials....
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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2009, 08:19 PM
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Re: If the rankings system is not working now. Then how did it work for so long?

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Originally Posted by Dunlop1 View Post
No one complained about the ranking system when Justine was #1. Could it be that players need to play well at other tournaments outside of slams to truly be #1?????

Nahhhhh. Just win slams and the magic ranking gods will make you #1. Yay Serena!
Henin won slams. Dinara nor JJ have done so. Hence the validity has been questioned.

Since slams are more important than smaller tournies, winning small tournies and NOT slams is more of a blemish than winning slams and NOT smaller tournies.

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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2009, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: If the rankings system is not working now. Then how did it work for so long?

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Originally Posted by Thanx4nothin View Post
Henin won slams. Dinara nor JJ have done so. Hence the validity has been questioned.

Since slams are more important than smaller tournies, winning small tournies and NOT slams is more of a blemish than winning slams and NOT smaller tournies.
Yes luv...we all know who's won what...but what changed in the rankings system and why was it changed....that's what I'm asking...
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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2009, 08:19 PM
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Re: If the rankings system is not working now. Then how did it work for so long?

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But it's not Dinara's fault. She's only filling the rankings criteria set by the WTA officials....
Yep. No one can blame Dinara. It is unfortunate, though, to have someone with 3 slams who is clearly the best player in the world not be #1.

In nearly every event Safina enters, she makes at least the semifinals. Not many people can say that. The points rack up.

This is why we need a ranking based on averages.
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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2009, 08:23 PM
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Re: If the rankings system is not working now. Then how did it work for so long?

It NEVER worked, it is designed to reward number of tournaments played rather than performance at tourneys where almost everyone shows up. (Slams, Tier 1).
Play enough tier II, III and IV and... wah-lah you can be on the top, but not played the main competetion. This is done to help the smaller tournaments attract players, but it makes the rankings meaningless. Some of the wanna be's play 30 or more tourneys to help their rankings which take the top 17 scores to calculate it. Dokic, Clijsters, and Henin were common users of this method, ALL burnt out and quit playing. I am not sure how this can be fixed. There are too many tourneys currently considering the physically demanding game that is played now.
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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2009, 08:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: If the rankings system is not working now. Then how did it work for so long?

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Originally Posted by In The Zone View Post
Yep. No one can blame Dinara. It is unfortunate, though, to have someone with 3 slams who is clearly the best player in the world not be #1.

In nearly every event Safina enters, she makes at least the semifinals. Not many people can say that. The points rack up.

This is why we need a ranking based on averages.
Yeah I agree with what you state and I'd say most would....like my previous post...I was asking what exactly changed and who changed...for whatever specific reason

I thought maybe someone knew...
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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2009, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
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Re: If the rankings system is not working now. Then how did it work for so long?

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It NEVER worked, it is designed to reward number of tournaments played rather than performance at tourneys where almost everyone shows up. (Slams, Tier 1).
Play enough tier II, III and IV and... wah-lah you can be on the top, but not played the main competetion. This is done to help the smaller tournaments attract players, but it makes the rankings meaningless. Some of the wanna be's play 30 or more tourneys to help their rankings which take the top 17 scores to calculate it. Dokic, Clijsters, and Henin were common users of this method, ALL burnt out and quit playing. I am not sure how this can be fixed. There are too many tourneys currently considering the physically demanding game that is played now.
Hold on...here's a new one...it never worked? You mean since the pro-era..or when they changed the rankings sytem?
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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2009, 08:25 PM
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Re: If the rankings system is not working now. Then how did it work for so long?

Ranking system was changed because Venus and Serena were # 1 and 2 while playing 12 tournaments per year including the slams. They did it by earning a lot of additional quality points- for beating high ranked opponents.
First the quality points went away, then Tier 1 and 2 got more points relative to slams.
Also, they increased the number of ranked tournaments to reward players who play a lot.
That lead to skewing of the perceived rankings in relation to computer rankings.
I believe the next CEO will make another adjustment back toward weighing quality of wins and H2H results.
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