Pointless complaints about women tennis - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 4th, 2002, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
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Pointless complaints about women tennis

Okay, I write this because I am very fed up with commentaotrs downgrading women tennis, saying they are too lopsided and there are no excitement. They are all prove wrong when Saturday night session achieves an all time record audience.

Using Saturday night as an example, commentators complain audience didn't get a good deal coz they saw three lopsided matches, saying that women tennis is not excitng because it is so predictable.

Now the main question I would really like to ask is this, do audience really care if the matches is lopsided? I brought this up because I do get a consensus from casual fans that they really don't get too excited about five sets cliffhanger unless they know those guys. They know Sampras, they know Agassi, they may know Hewitt, but for casual fans, it stop right here. A five set epic between Paradon and Greg will not capture anyone imagination apart from big fans like us or people from their country.

Back to the point, to fill up more than 20,000 you cannot expect all of them are big fans of tennis and know everyone, they (like the majority of TV audience) only get into tennis for this two weeks and has a limited knowledge about some players. Who would have known that Rusedski and Paradon was the hottest player on tour heading to US Open? I would say 1% of people who watch tennis in these two weeks

Do people prefer to watch five sets cliffhangers by two not so famous player to non fans, or a 40 minutes blow out by people they are familiar with? To the commentators, of course they love the five sets, coz they have so much knowledge about tennis. But for casual fans, the cruel truth is that they would prefer to watch Agassi or Serena beating the hell out of other player in an hour.

This world is driven by free market, in the end, tennis as a whole should be looking at why people love women tennis and say men tennis is stagnating. Many commentators just brush it off and claim it is just an illusion, but they never really looking into the problem, causal fans do not know as much knowledge as them and quite frankly watching a four hour marathon between two players they don't know is as bad as most of us watching 4 hours of US Open golf champuionship. And another valid point, why Tiger Woods help golf to increase the audience to golf dramatically when he is winning everything? Does it really matter that no one can challenge him on the regular basis?

Why dissed your own sport when women tennis can help the growth of tennis as a whole?

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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 4th, 2002, 11:34 AM
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Quentin......this has to be the best post in the history of WTA world!

I totally agree with you!


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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 4th, 2002, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the comment Joshua, hehe

Unfortuneately the truth still lie in the fact that commentators are dominated by past pros who do not find joy in watching women tennis unlike the majority of people. Maybe they need to look deeper when they commentate than to what they really think

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-You can create your own player, making their own name, making their personality.
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 4th, 2002, 12:51 PM
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OH Wongqks- you are so wise. I applause in awe.
Well..said young man. To be honest if my favorite, favorite
player such as Natasha Zvereva or Maggie or Kimiko or
even a Jana did a bagel to some newbie unknown. I
LOVED IT!! It made me so happy that they didn't have
to play a silly 3 set match against some qualifier from
Australia or wherever. The Sisters , Jen, Martina, Monica
etc...their fans LOVE seeing them clobber opponents.
Look at Steffi fans..it was the same thing. Watching Steffi
blow out some one in 47 minutes was utter delight for
them. Who's to argue if this is what the fans want to
see from their favorites. Sure..long matches are
entertaining; but mainly it's from the neutral tennis fan.
Your right WONGQKS; look at Wayne vs Younes finishing
up after 2:00am, 3 tie breaks, latest match in US OPEN
history. Did anybody care? Was it even reported in
the sports media? NOOOOOO!

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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 4th, 2002, 03:28 PM
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I've been watching tennis for 31 years and can both agree and disagree with your sentiments, wongqks. My two favorite players by far were Chris Evert and Monica Seles. One of the coolest matches I ever saw was Chris beat Martina Navratilova 6-0, 6-0. As I've gotten older, however, I've come to enjoy tennis for the sake of tennis. In other words, I prefer a good match to a particular player.

But I think the commentators have a point about women's tennis. I have long enjoyed the women's game more than the men and found it to be more entertaining. As of late, however, with a few notable exceptions, the women's game has been very poor in my opinion. I realize the players are hitting with more power, but their lack of consistency is appalling. A four-stroke rally that ends in an error makes for miserable tennis. In sharp contrast, the men are playing remarkable rallies, using so much of the court and hitting so many winners after working the point. I just think the quality of the men's game is far superior to the women at the moment -- although not their personalities. On top of that, the top women are so far ahead of the field that it makes for boring tennis. Consider Serena's demolition of Hantuchova last night -- there wasn't much to get excited about, unless you were a Serena fan who wanted the match over and done with as quickly as possible. Contrast the ease of the top player's on the women's side of the draw with the plight of the top men. The top men are struggling much more. The main culprit is depth, and I'll agree that the depth on the men's circuit is hindering the development of great rivalries. But the rank-and-file women desperately need to step up their games and make more of an impression. One of the best things that could happen to the women would be to return to 16 seeds -- the last Grand Slam tournament to generate much excitement among the women in the first three or four rounds was the 2001 French Open. Since then, it's been pretty much routine.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 4th, 2002, 03:43 PM Thread Starter
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Jem, thanks so much for yuor opinion, I really really appreciated, coz I have written this post to let me know what two sides of opinion can be and you gave me just that.

I agree with you to some extent, I used to hate men tenis, and I mean hate, but very quickly I realize that the only reason I hate men tennis so much is becuase I only see them in Wimbledon, where serve and volley is the only way to win matches. I also dislike men match French Open, i think points are just drag too long and players are merely putting their balls to the other side until they see an opening by chance.

After watching a handful of men matches last year, my altitude change, I get really excited when some of the matches that stretches over five sets, but there is a trend which I start developing when I watch men matches as well, it is that even if it is a match I am so dying to see, I will still wait for it to have played an hour and a half after they started and then I tune in. And I can be pretty sured that I am not the only one who did it.

anyway, I am getting too far to make a point here, but in the end, what I want to say in this post and also the above post is that both men and women tennis has their own value, I dunno why we have to have two different tours. I don't kinow why we need to compare them, they are different sports but more importantly, why men tennis find it so disheartening that women tennis is getting popular. Why those commentators have to diss their own sport?

But truth to be told I didn't enjoy Serena demolition of Daniela today and I did get pretty excited about Venus match against chanda, but in the end it is always come down to if the majority of TV audience also agree with you, and as I mention before, it is not true that majority of TV audience find a four hours men match more interesting than Serena demolishing everyone.

But generally, a great point about going back to 16 seeds, it will be so great and it will shut everyone up about top players getting easy matches in edarly rounds

FWTT
-Oldest game in wtaboard, started in April 2000 even before wtaworld is born.
-You can create your own player, making their own name, making their personality.
-Some player has been playing for more than 10 years


visit this thread for more detail
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 4th, 2002, 03:50 PM
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They need to stop picking on women's tennis when THERE HAVE BEEN COMPETIVE MATCHES. THE NUMBER FIVE SEED IS GONE!!!
THE BELGIANS HAVE BEEN UPSET!!! MONICA HAS PLAYED TWO GREAT THREE SETTERS!!!

That evil jim courier is just trying to backstab women's tennis, notice he doesn't say anything about Agassis straight sets slaughter of his opponents....

I implore everyone to write USA and tell them to can the negative comments on women's tennis right away before you switch channels.

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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 2002, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
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I think we will need a psychologist to explain this kind of human behaviour from what I hear about Patrick Mcenroe, and Jim Courier etc.

Maybe it is jealousy

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-Oldest game in wtaboard, started in April 2000 even before wtaworld is born.
-You can create your own player, making their own name, making their personality.
-Some player has been playing for more than 10 years


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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 2002, 10:07 AM
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I wish people didn't remind me that the number 5 seed has gone
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 2002, 11:48 PM
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You raise many good points, Quentin.

There is a notorious double-standard at work. When male athletes perform great and dominate their peers, they are praised. When women athletes do it, people trash the competition. What the ratings reflect though, is that people appreciate greatness. They would rather see a great player playing well and skunking his/her opponent, than to see that great player putting forth a mediocre performance just to make a match close. Fans like great players/teams. It's true in all sports. The NFL likes to claim it's salary-cap induced parity, where top teams can't keep their great players, in generating more excitement. But TV ratings are down in the absence of consistent, great teams.

It's the same in tennis. They want to see greatness. The widespread chaos on the men's tour this year even had some of their most ardent supporters in the media asking, is the tour really that deep, or is it an absence of great players at the top. We've seen at this US Open, when top players like Hewitt, Agassi, play well, they destroy their opponents. That's what great players do: they make very good players look very bad. It's just that the top women do it consistently. And it's only when the top men come down to the level of everyone else that they get parity.

The other problem is this adversarial attitude. The men's tour, and most of the tennis media, view the women's tour as "the enemy", instead of part of the sport as a whole. So whenever the men's tour struggles, they take potshots at the women. That's why the sport isn't getting where it should. When the Pete and Andre rivalry flared up in in the mid-90's, some tennis writers wanted the reaction of WTA officials, expecting them to be jealous. They were shocked when the WTA folk said they thought it was great. The WTA realized that the Pete/Andre rivalry wasn't just making men's tennis more popular, it made tennis more popular. And this helped the popularity of the women's tour too. When Magic Johnson's Lakers excelled, it didn't just make the Western Conference more popular, it made the NBA more popular. Likewise, the success of Jordan's Bulls didn't just help the Eastern Conference. Yet the people supporting the men's tour just don't get it. Yes, the success of Venus and Serena does primarily benefit the women's tour, but it benefits the sport as a whole. There is a coattail effect. But if they keep taking childish potshots, they will find the fans starting to draw a distinction between the two tours. It's happening already. If they're too self-centered to work for the good of the sport, I can't feel sorry for them when it happens.
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 2002, 11:55 PM
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Right on Brian.
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 2002, 12:12 AM
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wow so many great toughts express in this thread
great post
wongqks and
brian

Posted by Mad-about Venus: So true

To me Pam is a frustraded person who needs to live with the fact that she never won a Slam during her pathetic career, and she was never a threat to anybody. She resents the fact that players can get to places she always dreamed about. Unfortunatelly she has a microphone in her mouth and that allows her to spread a whole bunch of BS. That gives her joy. Someone should tell her to stick that micro somewhere else, she would get even more joy that way.
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 2002, 02:42 AM
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I think that the quality and depth of the men's tour is much much better than that on the women's tour...... yet that still doesn't make me half as interested in the ATP then I am with the WTA.

For me, there is so much drama happening at the top of the women's game and the leading protagonists of the women's game have interesting personalities and rivalries that it makes it much more interesting for both the casual observer who has come across these big names in the media and also die-hard tennis fans who relate to these players' results day in and day out and "love" them for what they bring to the game.
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 2002, 02:56 AM
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The depth on the women's tour is definitely coming. There were 4 fourth round matches that were extremely highly anticipated, because the lower seeds were all considered extremely dangerous. Amelie Mauresmo has a habit of beating almost anyone on a given day, and has, twice. Daniela Hantuchova is a rising star who knocked off a star who rose about a year sooner. Chanda Rubin is a proven veteran who has beaten most of the tours top players just within the past few months. And Martina Hingis is an all time great, when she is in the draw she has to be considered dangerous regardless of her form. Remember the January she had.
Also, the 32 seed system came in for two reasons. Partly because of the Spanish claycourters at Wimbledon, but the idea first got serious consideration not from the LTA but rather the USTA, because Venus lost in the first round of Roland Garros. Too much depth can be as problematic as too little. The WTA has a balance right now.

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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 2002, 03:05 AM
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What about Roddick vs Sampras?
3 straight sets at 1 1/2 hours of play.
Where's the depth of men's tennis here?

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