The WTA and work ethic, or lack thereof. - TennisForum.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 156 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2009, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 15,843
                     
The WTA and work ethic, or lack thereof.

I was reading through one of the threads in General Messages about Martina Hingis, and I thought about how much she could have done if she'd put in the extra work. Apparently she's said that her coach/mother always wanted her to work harder on her serve in particular to make it into more of a weapon, but she never wanted to put in that extra effort to make the improvements, and change her game as the game changes.

Fast forward to today. We have the likes of Bartoli, Kanepi and Kleybanova, all fairly overweight in terms of elite tennis players, all well inside the TOP 30. Sure, they all have weapons to make up for their lack of fitness, but you'd have to think they would be doing so much better if they were fitter. Even Davenport, and Seles (post stabbing) had woeful movement and fitness. Seles I can understand, and even Davenport after having her baby, but you'd have to agree that their careers would have been better if they'd improved their fitness. Even Lisa Raymond nowadays, it just boggles my mind how PROFESSIONAL tennis players allow their body to get like this, when in essence their body is their career.

No way am I saying these women are lazy, they work much more than I do. There are exceptions, Dementieva, Venus, Stosur. Women who care about fitness, and work hard to maintain it. But as a whole, when compared to the ATP where almost all of the men are of optimum fitness, it just doesn't seem like the women are enough to keep fit.

So, is there a lack of work ethic on the WTA Tour?


P.S. Sorry to add YET ANOTHER ATP-WTA comparison, but it serves as a benchmark. There's nothing else to compare the WTA to, so I don't see the problem.
Golovinjured. is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 156 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2009, 12:45 PM
country flag SM
Senior Member
 
SM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New South Wales
Posts: 11,024
                     
Re: The WTA and work ethic, or lack thereof.

I remember a commentator saying Hingis serve was very very similar to Molik, just she had physical limitations.

Hingis didn't like to train, and quite frankly i doubt it would make much of a difference if she trained harder, as her game came naturally....in fact, if she trained harder she probably would have burned out even earlieR?

with some of the larger players you have mentioned it comes down to genetics, atleast partially for some of them...as an extreme case look at Myriam Casanova

Good luck to the Aussie and Balkan girls!
SM is offline  
post #3 of 156 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2009, 12:47 PM
Senior Member
 
sammy01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: England
Posts: 25,415
                     
Re: The WTA and work ethic, or lack thereof.

theres is a lack of work ethic in womens tennis, don't quote me on it but during the indoor season last year im sure chak admitted to not putting in the hours and letting her fitness drop, so even the 'in shape' naturaly players go through spells of not working hard enough or putting the hours in.

dementieva is really what every player should strive to be, imagine if every player on tour was as fit as lena, im not saying as fast but as physicaly strong, then matches would probably improve 20% quality wise just because players wouldn't make stupid mistakes due to poor footwork ect. i hope in 10 years the tour is filled with lena d like players, at least with lena you can say if she never wins a slam theres no question marks over her work ethic or fitness, petrova, bartoli ect when they finish their respective careers will they look back at what could have been had they put in the extra hours?

Anna Chakvetadze Rules

Kim Clijsters - Supporting the comeback!

I have no other faves, I just hate
sammy01 is offline  
post #4 of 156 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2009, 01:05 PM
Senior Member
 
AndreConrad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Close to US Open :)
Posts: 4,590
                     
Re: The WTA and work ethic, or lack thereof.

Why would one discuss work ethic at WTA? There are individuals that have better or worse work ethic, but it has nothing to do with being overweight or slim, woman or man.

The best of luck to all tennis players; The game is on!
-Andre
P.S.Well,... special luck to Agnieszka Radwanska, Marta Domachowska, Daniela Hantuchova, Urszula Radwanska
Bally, Rest In Peace!
AndreConrad is offline  
post #5 of 156 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2009, 01:12 PM
Worshipping the bangs
 
miffedmax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Larsson's Player Forum
Posts: 52,034
                     
Re: The WTA and work ethic, or lack thereof.

If only Lena would work on her head as hard as she works on her body...

Max
Pass the duct tape and super glue. Lena's done broke my heart one last time.
Onward my LOB! Lena (ret.) Vika Vee TOB Caro Alexa Sabs Wicky Lesia Vania BMS Ekat Andi H. Jo-La Lena V KP2 Lil Bit Kiki Mini Mak Baby Veronika
"I read on the internet that there is something chipmunky about me :-)"--Andrea H.[/SIZE]
Jo-La Queen of Norrland and Bastad
Elena Viatcheslavovna Dementieva--Eternal Goddess of the Divine Bangs
miffedmax is offline  
post #6 of 156 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2009, 01:15 PM
Senior Member
 
sammy01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: England
Posts: 25,415
                     
Re: The WTA and work ethic, or lack thereof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreConrad View Post
Why would one discuss work ethic at WTA? There are individuals that have better or worse work ethic, but it has nothing to do with being overweight or slim, woman or man.
thats a very stupid thing to say, work ethic is directly linked to weight, fitness and shape, chances are if you are lazy you will be overweight and have poor fitness, and if you are a hard worker you will be in great shape and fit as a fiddle, there are exceptions (though too many on the wta to be coincidence). there is a problem in womens tennis with committment to training and practice, you cant deny this. there are a number of players who need to put in more hours in the gym and on court, you know who they are , i know who they are.

safina is a great example of being ok fitness wise up untill last year, but putting in the extra work, her body tonned up, she moved better and she will be #1 next week. she wasn't fat or out of shape in her career upto 2008 but as her improved results show she wasn't working hard enough to maximise her tennis, there are many safina type players on tour right now, average fitness and work ethic that could be improved and there tennis would also improve with it.

Anna Chakvetadze Rules

Kim Clijsters - Supporting the comeback!

I have no other faves, I just hate
sammy01 is offline  
post #7 of 156 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2009, 01:18 PM
Senior Member
 
Zébulon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 655
                     
Re: The WTA and work ethic, or lack thereof.

Work ethic can be about fitness but how about working on your game ? "Fitter" players than bartoli et al you named don't necessarily work harder, btw... WOrk ethic is way too broad a thing. And re: hingis, it's not as if her game really relied on power, right ? It all depends on the player and whther her game requires speed or arm strength or whatever... Some might need to practice a bit less and get a life to balance their head, i dunno... I mean, girls nowadays probably work more on their body than during different eras when the athleticism (??) was not the key factor.
Zébulon is offline  
post #8 of 156 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2009, 01:33 PM
Senior Member
 
barmaid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,562
                     
Re: The WTA and work ethic, or lack thereof.

Sammy1 said, "dementieva is really what every player should strive to be, imagine if every player on tour was as fit as lena, im not saying as fast but as physicaly strong".....

Your exmple of Elena's work ethics are commendable but what rewards has she attained by being "super fit"? A long and respectable career with "nada" slams and a few titles sprinkled in between. Sometimes just pure talent is the only winning ingredient you need...case in point Serena Williams AO '06 victory when she was overweight, winded and a few others she managed to grab over many "fitter players" but never had the talent to finish her off. Champions are madeup of many things, desire, motivation, skills, fitness, mental toughness and talent...but in giving examples of Elena or Jelena for instance...what you see is what you get...a super fit tennis player with nothing to "hoist"!. I also think that intangibles enter into many situations, Hingis lost to Majoli because she fell off a horse shortly before the RG tournament, Kuzy captured her first slam when Davenport was injured in the semi'-finals and then went on to beat a fit and more experienced Dementieva in the final....Maria who was trained as a tennis prodigy hasn't fulfilled her big expectations due to constant injuries, Henin who worked like a dog on her fitness and was rewarded in capturing her 7 slams but left the scene earlier than expected because I guess she was "burned out"! Yeah, being super fit can only get you so far....but the thread starter is correct....the current WTA work ethic is far below par and that just leaves the quality of tennis at a C minus level as well.

Barmaid
barmaid is offline  
post #9 of 156 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2009, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 15,843
                     
Re: The WTA and work ethic, or lack thereof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barmaid View Post
Sammy1 said, "dementieva is really what every player should strive to be, imagine if every player on tour was as fit as lena, im not saying as fast but as physicaly strong".....

Your exmple of Elena's work ethics are commendable but what rewards has she attained by being "super fit"? A long and respectable career with "nada" slams and a few titles sprinkled in between. Sometimes just pure talent is the only winning ingredient you need...case in point Serena Williams AO '06 victory when she was overweight, winded and a few others she managed to grab over many "fitter players" but never had the talent to finish her off.

Barmaid
But it's making the most of what you've got. Elena is far from the most talented on tour, and doesn't have natural ability per se, but by being as fit as possible she's given herself success that otherwise she wouldn't have experienced. If she didn't work as hard to be as fit as she is, she wouldn't have Olympic Gold, or be at #3 in the world. What I'm trying to say is that her fitness has not limited her in fulfilling her talent. I'd say her achievements equal, or even outweigh what her talent should have given her, career wise.

On the other hand, you have Hingis whose achievements, in my opinion, DO NOT equal her talent. Some would say that could come down to her physical work ethic.
Golovinjured. is offline  
post #10 of 156 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2009, 01:42 PM
Senior Member
 
sammy01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: England
Posts: 25,415
                     
Re: The WTA and work ethic, or lack thereof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barmaid View Post
Sammy1 said, "dementieva is really what every player should strive to be, imagine if every player on tour was as fit as lena, im not saying as fast but as physicaly strong".....

Your exmple of Elena's work ethics are commendable but what rewards has she attained by being "super fit"? A long and respectable career with "nada" slams and a few titles sprinkled in between. Sometimes just pure talent is the only winning ingredient you need...case in point Serena Williams AO '06 victory when she was overweight, winded and a few others she managed to grab over many "fitter players" but never had the talent to finish her off. Champions are madeup of many things, desire, motivation, skills, fitness, mental toughness and talent...but in giving examples of Elena or Jelena for instance...what you see is what you get...a super fit tennis player with nothing to "hoist"!. I also think that intangibles enter into many situations, Hingis lost to Majoli because she fell off a horse shortly before the RG tournament, Kuzy captured her first slam when Davenport was injured in the semi'-finals and then went on to beat a fit and more experienced Dementieva in the final....Maria who was trained as a tennis prodigy hasn't fulfilled her big expectations due to constant injuries, Henin who worked like a dog on her fitness and was rewarded in capturing her 7 slams but left the scene earlier than expected because I guess she was "burned out"! Yeah, being super fit can only get you so far....but the thread starter is correct....the current WTA work ethic is far below par and that just leaves the quality of tennis at a C minus level as well.

Barmaid
my point is barmaid lena d has limitations in her game but she has absolutely maximised herself by being as fit, strong and fast as she possibley can be. there are players who can win slams with talent alone but think how much better they could be with lena d style fitness to back up their talent. no matter how talented a player is that extra step, that extra ball back in court, that extra mile is what will maximise their talent.

Anna Chakvetadze Rules

Kim Clijsters - Supporting the comeback!

I have no other faves, I just hate
sammy01 is offline  
post #11 of 156 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2009, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 15,843
                     
Re: The WTA and work ethic, or lack thereof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy01 View Post
my point is barmaid lena d has limitations in her game but she has absolutely maximised herself by being as fit, strong and fast as she possibley can be. there are players who can win slams with talent alone but think how much better they could be with lena d style fitness to back up their talent. no matter how talented a player is that extra step, that extra ball back in court, that extra mile is what will maximise their talent.
Golovinjured. is offline  
post #12 of 156 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2009, 01:52 PM
Senior Member
 
AndreConrad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Close to US Open :)
Posts: 4,590
                     
Re: The WTA and work ethic, or lack thereof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy01 View Post
thats a very stupid thing to say, work ethic is directly linked to weight, fitness and shape, chances are if you are lazy you will be overweight and have poor fitness, and if you are a hard worker you will be in great shape and fit as a fiddle, there are exceptions (though too many on the wta to be coincidence). there is a problem in womens tennis with committment to training and practice, you cant deny this. there are a number of players who need to put in more hours in the gym and on court, you know who they are , i know who they are.

safina is a great example of being ok fitness wise up untill last year, but putting in the extra work, her body tonned up, she moved better and she will be #1 next week. she wasn't fat or out of shape in her career upto 2008 but as her improved results show she wasn't working hard enough to maximise her tennis, there are many safina type players on tour right now, average fitness and work ethic that could be improved and there tennis would also improve with it.
I honestly believe that it is not stupid thing to say at all. I have been fit my entire life; always between 185 - 190 lbs at 6'3" and I did nothing to be that way. On the other hand I know plenty of people that sweat their asses off in the gym with little to show for it. Yes, some did lose their motivation on the way and yes some have poor diet. However, if someone brings up Kaia Kanepi or others like her and states that she has to have poor work ethic then this person doesn't have a remote idea what does it take to get into top 100. We will never know how much talent some of these players have, but I doubt they got where they are on talent and luck alone.

The best of luck to all tennis players; The game is on!
-Andre
P.S.Well,... special luck to Agnieszka Radwanska, Marta Domachowska, Daniela Hantuchova, Urszula Radwanska
Bally, Rest In Peace!
AndreConrad is offline  
post #13 of 156 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2009, 02:03 PM
Senior Member
 
sammy01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: England
Posts: 25,415
                     
Re: The WTA and work ethic, or lack thereof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreConrad View Post
I honestly believe that it is not stupid thing to say at all. I have been fit my entire life; always between 185 - 190 lbs at 6'3" and I did nothing to be that way. On the other hand I know plenty of people that sweat their asses off in the gym with little to show for it. Yes, some did lose their motivation on the way and yes some have poor diet. However, if someone brings up Kaia Kanepi or others like her and states that she has to have poor work ethic then this person doesn't have a remote idea what does it take to get into top 100. We will never know how much talent some of these players have, but I doubt they got where they are on talent and luck alone.
well i've seen kanepi huffing and puffing after a few games in matches, if you want to tell me she has great work ethic, is in shape and is fit, you're only fooling yourself not me.

Anna Chakvetadze Rules

Kim Clijsters - Supporting the comeback!

I have no other faves, I just hate
sammy01 is offline  
post #14 of 156 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2009, 02:13 PM
Winner
 
Dave.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,012
                     
Re: The WTA and work ethic, or lack thereof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golovinjured. View Post
I was reading through one of the threads in General Messages about Martina Hingis, and I thought about how much she could have done if she'd put in the extra work. Apparently she's said that her coach/mother always wanted her to work harder on her serve in particular to make it into more of a weapon, but she never wanted to put in that extra effort to make the improvements, and change her game as the game changes.

Fast forward to today. We have the likes of Bartoli, Kanepi and Kleybanova, all fairly overweight in terms of elite tennis players, all well inside the TOP 30. Sure, they all have weapons to make up for their lack of fitness, but you'd have to think they would be doing so much better if they were fitter. Even Davenport, and Seles (post stabbing) had woeful movement and fitness. Seles I can understand, and even Davenport after having her baby, but you'd have to agree that their careers would have been better if they'd improved their fitness. Even Lisa Raymond nowadays, it just boggles my mind how PROFESSIONAL tennis players allow their body to get like this, when in essence their body is their career.

No way am I saying these women are lazy, they work much more than I do. There are exceptions, Dementieva, Venus, Stosur. Women who care about fitness, and work hard to maintain it. But as a whole, when compared to the ATP where almost all of the men are of optimum fitness, it just doesn't seem like the women are enough to keep fit.

So, is there a lack of work ethic on the WTA Tour?


P.S. Sorry to add YET ANOTHER ATP-WTA comparison, but it serves as a benchmark. There's nothing else to compare the WTA to, so I don't see the problem.
Firstly, can you leave out Bartoli? She did get herself in shape, she is very fit. Even though she had the best success of her career when everyone said she was "fat". Appearing to have a bit more fat on you does not make you unfit. Bartoli played LOADS of tennis that Wimbledon and didn't appear to be physically struggling.

Davenport did not have woeful fitness, wtf is that all about? She had bad movement due to her height that's all.
Dave. is offline  
post #15 of 156 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2009, 02:13 PM
Senior Member
 
AndreConrad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Close to US Open :)
Posts: 4,590
                     
Re: The WTA and work ethic, or lack thereof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy01 View Post
well i've seen kanepi huffing and puffing after a few games in matches, if you want to tell me she has great work ethic, is in shape and is fit, you're only fooling yourself not me.
No Sammy I would not say she is fit, but I would have hard time to assume that she has poor work ethic. She did not get where she is sitting on her ass and doing nothing so did not Tsonga (this is the other point I was trying to make, that poor work ethic has nothing to do with male female).

The best of luck to all tennis players; The game is on!
-Andre
P.S.Well,... special luck to Agnieszka Radwanska, Marta Domachowska, Daniela Hantuchova, Urszula Radwanska
Bally, Rest In Peace!
AndreConrad is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Image Verification
Please enter the six letters or digits that appear in the image opposite.

Registration Image

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome