How do you qualify who the best players on grass are? - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2009, 07:36 PM Thread Starter
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How do you qualify who the best players on grass are?

With the grass season being the shortest of them all, how does one rank the best grass court players of this generation? Obviously Venus and Serena occupy the top two spots, but how do you iron out the rest? After Venus and Serena things get a bit murky because no one else has more than 1 Wimbledon title and even fewer have more than 1 final (I believe only Martina, Lindsay and Justine has). Obviously this is a discussion of who is best, not who is greatest. But with only a number of tournaments to showcase talents most top players rarely even play more than just Wimbledon. Does winning the big W make you better than someone who didn't? Does reaching the final make you better than someone who didn't? ie is Bartoli better on grass thn Clijsters or Capriati? Does winning a tournament on the surface make you better than someone who has never? Does getting a win over a big name on the surface mean anything? Does your WL record on the surface make a difference?

That said what would your grass court ranking look like?

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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2009, 07:44 PM
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Re: How do you qualify who the best players on grass are?

Who has won the most Wimbledon titles.
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2009, 08:12 PM
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Re: How do you qualify who the best players on grass are?

In terms of entire careers of those players who have been active in the last 10 years

1. Venus


2. Serena
3. Davenport
4. Mauresmo
5. Henin
6. Maria Sharapova
7. Martina Hingis

the rest are pretty irrelevant IMHO

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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2009, 08:18 PM
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Re: How do you qualify who the best players on grass are?

I wish we had a longer grass season, i mean the players that are good on clay are rewarded throughout the year
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2009, 08:40 PM
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Re: How do you qualify who the best players on grass are?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shap_half View Post
Does winning the big W make you better than someone who didn't? Does reaching the final make you better than someone who didn't? ie is Bartoli better on grass thn Clijsters or Capriati? Does winning a tournament on the surface make you better than someone who has never? Does getting a win over a big name on the surface mean anything? Does your WL record on the surface make a difference?
That said what would your grass court ranking look like?
More often than not, in sportsresults matter more than feelings and opinions. You don't win seven matches purely by luck without the skills to do so, especially on grass. The obvious top 2 are Venus and Serena....
Lindsay (the reason Lindsay has 1 title is due mainly to Venus)
Moresmo (1 title due mainly to Serena)
Maria ( 1 title due to Venus mainly)
Justine (0 title due to those above who are better on grass
Hingis even though she has 1 title I think this was before the game of the others were fully developed in '97.
Of the remainder they would have to consistently get to the qrts or better for them to be considered. Their main problem is just that they usually meet the better players in the latter rounds.

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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2009, 08:49 PM
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Re: How do you qualify who the best players on grass are?

I find it surprising that Hingis is being written off so easily. She won the title in 1997, as well as s'Hertogenbosch in 2000. She reached the SF in 1998 and QF in 2000. People forget that in 2000, the top half of the draw was Venus, Serena and Martina with the bottom half consisting of Seles, Davenport and Dokic. If Hingis had gotten Davenport's draws in 2000 at Wimbledon and US Open, she would've been the losing finalist there instead. It's just how the draws played out - I don't think 2000 is necessarily a great indicator of ability. I'd much rather use Davenport's 2005 run to underline her grass court superiority complimented by her 1999 championship.

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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2009, 09:14 PM
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Re: How do you qualify who the best players on grass are?

Ive never liked grass tennis. Its my least favorite surface and I think the most boring. Of course, I can understand why others like it. I just dont.

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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2009, 09:16 PM
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Re: How do you qualify who the best players on grass are?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodoboy. View Post
I wish we had a longer grass season, i mean the players that are good on clay are rewarded throughout the year
wrong
the players who are good on hard are rewarded 80% of the yr
Clay is no where near as much as hard courts

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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2009, 09:19 PM
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Re: How do you qualify who the best players on grass are?

What is really that hard about clay courts? Are the points really that much longer? I need to pay more attention to that during this clay court season.

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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2009, 09:20 PM
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Re: How do you qualify who the best players on grass are?

Clay still has a lot more points up for grabs than grass especially this year but it makes sense I guess since clay courts are more easy to manage than grass, but grass should have at least a Premier or higher as well as Wimb I think.

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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2009, 09:23 PM
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Re: How do you qualify who the best players on grass are?

I think there's no question that, in order, V/S/Davenport are the top 3.

Then it's pretty close between Mauresmo, Sharapova, Hingis and Henin.

Although not winning it, Henin reached the most (5) semifinals, and the most (2) finals. AND she is the only one to win Eastbourne, which she did twice and she won s'Hertogenbosch and reached another final for a total of 3 grasscourt titles/6 finals.

Mauresmo won it once, reached 4 semis and Eastbourne final.
Sharapova won it once, reached 3 semis and 2 Birminghams + another final + 2 semis.
Hingis won it once, reached 2 semis & 1 quarter, won s'Hertogenbosch.

The fact that Mauresmo & Sharapova won it and backed it up puts them ahead of Henin IMO, but Henin trumps Hingis, despite not winning it, she still has a better record at Wimbledon.

so..

4. Mauresmo
5. Sharapova
6. Henin
7. Hingis
8. Capriati (2 semis, 5 quarters, win over MN)
9. Clijsters (2 semis, 3 quarters, Eastbourne/s'Hertogenbosch titles)
10. Bartoli (Wimbledon final, 2 Eastbourne semis + Birmingham semi)
11. Dokic (Wimbledon semi + quarter, Birmingham title)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlover View Post
More often than not, in sportsresults matter more than feelings and opinions. You don't win seven matches purely by luck without the skills to do so, especially on grass. The obvious top 2 are Venus and Serena....
Lindsay (the reason Lindsay has 1 title is due mainly to Venus)
Moresmo (1 title due mainly to Serena)
Maria ( 1 title due to Venus mainly)
Justine (0 title due to those above who are better on grass
Hingis even though she has 1 title I think this was before the game of the others were fully developed in '97.
Of the remainder they would have to consistently get to the qrts or better for them to be considered. Their main problem is just that they usually meet the better players in the latter rounds.
I think a win over Novotna on grass is worth more than one over Mauresmo/Sharapova/Henin. I think we need to give Hingis credit for her Wimbledon title and grasscourt skill.
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2009, 09:28 PM
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Re: How do you qualify who the best players on grass are?

Tati is so amaze on grass, its a shame shes always injured at wimbledon.
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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 22nd, 2009, 10:37 PM
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Re: How do you qualify who the best players on grass are?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoiledEgg View Post
wrong
the players who are good on hard are rewarded 80% of the yr
Clay is no where near as much as hard courts
I think it's more a reference to the lower ranked girls in the top 100 who can play the International events on clay and then mix them up with the larger ITF events on clay, playing very little on hard or grass, whereas if you're prefer playing on grass, you've only got June where you can pick up some decent points on grass and then you're off playing on hard or clay for the rest of the season
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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 2009, 02:56 AM
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Re: How do you qualify who the best players on grass are?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodoboy. View Post
I wish we had a longer grass season, i mean the players that are good on clay are rewarded throughout the year
That is a good point.
So many clay tournament before RG, and just one before Wimbledon.
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 2009, 03:04 AM
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Re: How do you qualify who the best players on grass are?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoiledEgg View Post
wrong
the players who are good on hard are rewarded 80% of the yr
Clay is no where near as much as hard courts
80%, how did you come up with this number?
So the AO, RG and Wimby only have to share 20%?

Because I do not consider AO surface the same as USO hard court.
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