The Williams recent success is due to the retirement/sidelining of their major rivals - Page 3 - TennisForum.com

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #31 of 541 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 2008, 11:20 AM
country flag RVD
Senior Member
 
RVD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 32,254
                     
Re: The Williams recent success is due to the retirement/sidelining of their major ri

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serena~lover View Post
I can't resist troll threads someone has to point out the obvious to you. Firstly, let me start with a fairly fundamental concept that some people still seem unable to grasp. Serena and Venus are different people. They were born in different years, started playing professional tennis in different years, they have had different careers and they have both had different major rivals.

Only one person on your list was a major rival to Serena, Justine Henin. Jelena Jankovic still is a major rival and she played arguably the best match of her Grand Slam career against Serena in the US Open Final recently. All the other head to heads are embarassingly in favour of Serena, so lets not even go there.

Justine retired but it was after being owned by Serena, during the middle of her winning streak, and greatest period of success this year. So please explain to me how Justine's retirement helped Serena's success when she was an active player for the majority of it?

We said nearly the exact same thing only seconds apart.

Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. - Malcolm X
A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything. - Malcolm X
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. - Confucius
The greatest scholars are not usually the wisest people. - Geoffrey Chaucer
RVD is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 541 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 2008, 11:22 AM
Senior Member
 
Olórin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 13,636
                     
Re: The Williams recent success is due to the retirement/sidelining of their major ri

Quote:
Originally Posted by RVD View Post

We said nearly the exact same thing only seconds apart.
I know

Ahh well, a double bagel for Chuvack to munch on

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alla Luce View Post
(1)A lot is being made of the record Serena has vs Sharapova. It is being used as THE reason she will win again lol. Good thing we have players like Tomas Berdych (who had an even worse record vs Nadal) to remind us of the fallacy of this nonsense logic.
(2)You stans may as well sleep well tonight because tomorrow the a replay of Lucie's winning moment over and over again will haunt your dreams for weeks to come
(3)The stars have aligned perfectly for the upset of the 21st century. All the best Garbine
(4) There is no path to victory for Williams.Keys wins in straight easy sets.
Olórin is offline  
post #33 of 541 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 2008, 11:27 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 30,660
                     
Re: The Williams recent success is due to the retirement/sidelining of their major ri

A champion in my opinion is Serena, she's one because she's been on top of the game for so long, she's been out by a surgery, she has come back, she fell again due to injuries, and then she came back again and is on top again.

Justine can't be called the greatest champion, since she really had no serious injury going on in her career to make such a comeback, and she quited when she was down, and didn't have it in her to fight back.
youizahoe is offline  
post #34 of 541 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 2008, 11:36 AM
country flag RVD
Senior Member
 
RVD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 32,254
                     
Re: The Williams recent success is due to the retirement/sidelining of their major ri

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serena~lover View Post
I know

Ahh well, a double bagel for Chuvack to munch on

Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. - Malcolm X
A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything. - Malcolm X
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. - Confucius
The greatest scholars are not usually the wisest people. - Geoffrey Chaucer
RVD is offline  
post #35 of 541 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 2008, 11:42 AM
country flag PLP
Senior Member
 
PLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 7,028
                     
Re: The Williams recent success is due to the retirement/sidelining of their major ri

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuvack View Post
I dont want to show a disrespect for 2008 Wimbledon and USOpen performances of Serena and Venus. They won the trophies fair and fair. However, the WTA is in a truly awful state. Take a look at the condition of the former rivals and supposed up-and-coming challengers and tell me the Williams arent beneficiaries:


Kim Clijsters: Quit the WTA at age 23
Justine Henin: Quit the WTA at age 25 (after owning Williams in '07)
Masha Sharapova: 2008 has been a non-year for her after Aus Open
Ana Ivanovic: Played like average Top 30 player at Wimby/USO
Amelie Mauresmo: Satisfied & complacent with her 2 GS in '06
Nicole Vaidisova: Supposed next WTA big star is a train wreck
Tati Golovin: Repeated injuries destroy her chances to be top player
Sveta Kuznetsova: Appears simply not to give a damn
Jelena Jankovic: The weakest #1 player in the history of pro tennis
Anna Chakvetadze: Her 2007 successes now appear simply a fluke
Martina Hingis: Her comeback had potential but ended with a thud

not to mention smaller scale disasters of players once touted as the "future of womens tennis" like Shahar Peer, Sania Mirza, Michaella Krajicek, Tamira Paszek, Lucie Safarova, etc. If the WTA was in any kind of normal shape I doubt the Williams would be able to winning GS titles, except maybe at Wimby. Safina and Dementieva are really the only players this year performing up to standard, but both suffer from serious built-in weaknesses that kept them from winning a GS this year.
Great post. I think they only slight disagreement I have is that it should be they have 'benefited' from the rest of the field evaporating. This is obvious isn't it?
Would they still be winning majors anyway...of course!
Has the rest of the tour totally crumbled? Unfortunately yes.

Venus Ana Caro Sloane
Timea Aga Masha Bencic Kristyna Keys Dani
Sania Vika Nicole Petko Simona Broady Robi CiCi Mladenovic Garcia JJ Errani Duval


Martina Hingis Forever!!!
PLP is offline  
post #36 of 541 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 2008, 11:46 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Sex & Fashion
Posts: 380
                     
Re: The Williams recent success is due to the retirement/sidelining of their major ri

Part of being a Grand Slam champion is being in physically peak condition for two weeks, there's no point in having great skills if your injuries mean you can hardly serve, or running for the ball is like having knives stabbed into your leg.

Saying that Serena won the US Open because her rivals weren't in top physical conditions, to me, is the same as saying Serena won the US open because so-and-so didn't have a good serve etc.

We may as well say the only reason why Serena won this US Open because Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal didn't have sex changes and started on the women's tour. People need to accept that Ree was the best player over the two weeks and therefore the rightful champion!!!
Living_Legend is offline  
post #37 of 541 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 2008, 11:48 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 10,797
                     
Re: The Williams recent success is due to the retirement/sidelining of their major ri

Look nobody is gonna deny that the tour kinda caught up to the Williams sisters.

But in the end, you still have to get up early in the morning to outright beat a Williams week end and out and even though Justine might have done it four times in 07, Venus and Serena have only been getting better since then.
Jakeev is offline  
post #38 of 541 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 2008, 11:59 AM
Rena's Army
 
BuTtErFrEnA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: "The Terror of Veerror"
Posts: 34,505
                     
Re: The Williams recent success is due to the retirement/sidelining of their major ri

ummmm so what happened when the sisters weren't playing??? everyone else should give back their titles because the sisters were not playing jh has to give up her 03 us open and 04 AO title, 07 us open title because clearly serena/venus were not in their best physical condition....so i'd say jh and the others have to give back their titles since obviously the sisters were sidelined

03- both left the tour due to career threatening injuries (give back your US Open jh)
04- came back but were not the same as the previous two years (give back your AO title jh, FO title Mys. Wimbly title Masha, US Open Kuzzy)
05- serena won AO then was sidelined the rest of the year/venus won wimbly and that was it (so give back your RG title jh and US Open title Kim)
06- both were sidelined with injuries the majority of the year (give back your AO and Wimbly titles MoMo, your RG title jh and your US Open title Masha)
07- serena couldn't sustain her momentum after winning AO/Miami and became out of shape, venus had anaemia and couldn't last in long matches but won wimbledon just cause its grass (give back your RG and US Open titles jh)
08- serena/venus played like **** in their QF and 3rd rd losses at the AO and RG (give back your AO title masha, but you can keep yours ana )

14 GS titles should belong to venus/serena since they were sidelined by injuries a lot and the others only won their titles because of this

Raúl hasta siempre capitán ♥♥♥


I shall destroy the temple, and rebuild it in 3 days
BuTtErFrEnA is offline  
post #39 of 541 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 2008, 12:22 PM
Senior Member
 
winone23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Yankee Nation
Posts: 9,213
                     
Re: The Williams recent success is due to the retirement/sidelining of their major ri

Quote:
Originally Posted by bandabou View Post
Maybe..but the funny thing is: Those rival were supposed to outlast the sisters.
Yes that is the funniest part. The same players praised for being so dedicated to the WTA, quit on it.

VENUS WILLIAMS IS A BOSS

Eleven, Jamba Juice, Miami Dolphins, V*Starr Interiors ,World Team Tennis
Veelieve! THE RETURN OF THE QUEEN 2015! Return to Top Ten!!!!!
Taylor Townsend / Madison Keys
NY KNICKS / TEAM MELO
winone23 is offline  
post #40 of 541 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 2008, 12:24 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 83
                     
Re: The Williams recent success is due to the retirement/sidelining of their major ri

Venus Williams is the greatest grass court player of her generation, and one of the greatest of all time. She's simply better than every other player on the surface, which is why she wins it so often and makes the finals. If Henin was around in 2008, and Sharapova was fit and Clijsters was around, Venus still would have won Wimbledon. No other player dominates a surface as completely as Venus dominate grass.

Venus has given Sharapova two Wimby beatdowns in the past few years, before winning the title. An in-form Henin had the chance to face Venus in the 07 Wimby final, but choked against Bartoli. Not Venus' problem.

So Venus' Wimby wins basically come because she's superior to every player on the surface, no matter their form or talent. It has nothing to do with her benefitting from a weakened tour. If Venus was really benefitting, she'd be winning more than Wimbledon.
grudpill is offline  
post #41 of 541 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 2008, 12:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 30,660
                     
Re: The Williams recent success is due to the retirement/sidelining of their major ri

Quote:
Originally Posted by grudpill View Post
Venus Williams is the greatest grass court player of her generation, and one of the greatest of all time. She's simply better than every other player on the surface, which is why she wins it so often and makes the finals. If Henin was around in 2008, and Sharapova was fit and Clijsters was around, Venus still would have won Wimbledon. No other player dominates a surface as completely as Venus dominate grass.

Venus has given Sharapova two Wimby beatdowns in the past few years, before winning the title. An in-form Henin had the chance to face Venus in the 07 Wimby final, but choked against Bartoli. Not Venus' problem.

So Venus' Wimby wins basically come because she's superior to every player on the surface, no matter their form or talent. It has nothing to do with her benefitting from a weakened tour. If Venus was really benefitting, she'd be winning more than Wimbledon.
Serena can beat her though, but she left it, next time she'll take that crown.
youizahoe is offline  
post #42 of 541 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 2008, 12:28 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 15,307
                     
Re: The Williams recent success is due to the retirement/sidelining of their major ri

Quote:
Originally Posted by MЯ iGlenn™ View Post
A champion in my opinion is Serena, she's one because she's been on top of the game for so long, she's been out by a surgery, she has come back, she fell again due to injuries, and then she came back again and is on top again.

Justine can't be called the greatest champion, since she really had no serious injury going on in her career to make such a comeback, and she quited when she was down, and didn't have it in her to fight back.
But you're just limiting your post to injuries when personal issues can be discussed as well, and Justine had more personal issues in her career than injuries. That I know, but I didn't follow Justines career all the way so I'm not totally informed.

I do know that she came back from a viral infection and started to win slams again so that deserves some credit. And also, she went through her grandfathers death and became enstranged from her family and was still winning slams thereafter. Recently, she went through her divorce and came back to win ten titles in that year including two slams and the YEC.

So, yeah, Serena went through alot of injuries but Justine went through alot of personal issues and so in that respect both came back strong from being down and seemingly out in their careers. Therefore both, in my opinion, are considered great champions.

DON'T WAVE YOUR HAND AT ME GURLLL!
Veerror is offline  
post #43 of 541 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 2008, 12:40 PM
Senior Member
 
hablo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: canada
Posts: 49,953
                     
Re: The Williams recent success is due to the retirement/sidelining of their major ri

Quote:
Amelie Mauresmo: Satisfied & complacent with her 2 GS in '06
I'm certain Amélie wouldn't agree or she wouldn't still be around on tour.

Quote:
19. In the period from January to April 2006 Dr. Skalny sent very detailed messages to Ms Sharapova [...]: “Mildronate 1-2 X 10, repeat in 2 wks (before training or competition)”; “1 hr before competition, 2 pills of Mildronate”; “During games of special importance, you can increase your Mildronate dose to 3-4 pills (1 hr before the match). However, it is necessary to consult me on all these matters (please call)”; “30 minutes prior to a training session: Mildronat – 1 Capsule. 30-45 minutes prior to a tournament Mildronat 2 capsules”.
hablo is offline  
post #44 of 541 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 2008, 12:43 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 15,307
                     
Arrow Re: The Williams recent success is due to the retirement/sidelining of their major ri

Quote:
Originally Posted by MЯ iGlenn™ View Post
First of all, her viral infection was no big deal, she could have came back after 2 months, but she wanted to train herself of at Etcheberry's center.

She was already enstranged from her family since she got married, which was her god damn own fault, and she should have listened.

Her grandfather is no big deal either, old people die, and she knew it months ahead.

Serena's and Venus's sister got shot, I think that's more painful than all the things she got through during her carreer. Combine it with injuries, it's a lot worse..

Firstly, how do you know her viral infection wasn't a big deal? Different things affect people in different ways no matter how small or big.

Secondly, it doesn't matter when you become enstranged from your family, it's still a lot of mental baggage for someone whether it's 2 months down the road or ten years. And what do you mean, she should have listened?

As for the grandfather comment, that was pretty harsh. But all the same, it still would have affected Justine.

With regards to the Williams sisters, I mentioned that both Serena [obv including Venus with regards to Yetunde] and Justine have gone through alot of personal and physical issues. It isn't a competition, but both have had a hard time dealing with such things.

That's all I'm saying, it isn't just Serena that has come back from negativity in her life to become a champion.

DON'T WAVE YOUR HAND AT ME GURLLL!
Veerror is offline  
post #45 of 541 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 2008, 12:50 PM
Senior Member
 
miss molly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: belgium
Posts: 808
                     
Re: The Williams recent success is due to the retirement/sidelining of their major ri

Quote:
Originally Posted by MЯ iGlenn™ View Post
First of all, her viral infection was no big deal, she could have came back after 2 months, but she wanted to train herself of at Etcheberry's center.

She was already enstranged from her family since she got married, which was her god damn own fault, and she should have listened.

Her grandfather is no big deal either, old people die, and she knew it months ahead.

Serena's and Venus's sister got shot, I think that's more painful than all the things she got through during her carreer. Combine it with injuries, it's a lot worse..

Disgusting post.

Justine Henin
Hello luck! We're waiting for you, thanks!

miss molly is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome