Venus beat Serena by. . . - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 118 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 2008, 01:17 PM Thread Starter
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Venus beat Serena by. . .

attacking her strengths, rather than focusing solely on her weaknesses.

Serena's strengths:

serve: Venus put so much pressure on Serena's serve; she attacked the second serve (supposedly the "best in women's tennis") mercilessly and I think Serena won only five points on her second serve whereas Venus won 56% of her second serves.

return game: Venus minimized this advantage by serving repeatedly into the body; this prevented Serena from whacking it back (which she did often enough anyway); she also varied her serve placement and speed and threw Serena off. Despite all the break points, she only broke Venus twice. Venus broke four times, despite all of Serena's aces.

mental toughness: by going after Serena's strengths, she was able to win the mental battle and she showed Serena at that point 2-1 in the first set that you come after me, but I'm standing tough. "Bring it!"

at the same time, Serena went after Venus' weakness on the forehand, but Venus was ready and the forehand held up.

If Venus can continue this approach, not only will their matches be more competitive but big Sis might actually win a few more.

Last edited by vwfan; Jul 7th, 2008 at 03:11 PM.
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post #2 of 118 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 2008, 03:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Venus beat Serena by. . .

oh yeah, and she's the best grasscourt player of her generation. and she just surpassed Steffi Graf in career W/L on grass.
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post #3 of 118 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 2008, 04:26 PM
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Re: Venus beat Serena by. . .

Yep on point... If I were a player on tour, I'd keep watching the video of the final and parts of the 2nd set Zheng semi final in the future.

"I love the game, I love the thrill, I love the "Go Venus`."
"It takes a lot of work to get to this level, so while I can play I'm going to play."

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post #4 of 118 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 2008, 04:32 PM
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Re: Venus beat Serena by. . .

Yes,but can the others player"s do it? Watching is another thing!
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post #5 of 118 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 2008, 04:40 PM
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Re: Venus beat Serena by. . .

VW fan,
You're analysis is right on. She did beat Serena by attacking her strengths. Serena thought she was gonna attack the Venus second serve and hit the cross court winners, and then come back with an ace. Serena should have know that aces can't win a match.


Venus didn't even go for that many aces. Like Mary Carillo stated in their doubles match that Venus pounded Serena with those body serves. Serena was more frustrated because Venus was pushing her behind the baseline and Serena can't hit behind the baseline. She has to be inside the baseline so she can throw her weight into the shots because she doesn't have the strength to go the longer distance on the run.


Even with that 23 stroke rally showed how Venus was hitting that ball hard and Serena was just sending air shots back, but strategically Venus began to run her side to side and the shots started going deeper and that pushed Serena further behind the baseline and all Serena could do was an air ball out to end the point because she was tired and couldn't run anymore. Then Venus strategically came back with another body blow.


You're right, Venus didn't beat Serena by exploiting her weakness, she just prevented Serena from using her strengths. That was an excellent tactic to use against Serena.


Venus totally devastated Serena because she not only didn't let Serena use her strengths, Venus knew how to play in the gusty winds and she adapted her game and like Mary Carillo stated her long arms and legs allowed her to get to those funky bounces and balls that the wind had blown and she would make those shots, whereas, Serena couldn't because she doesn't volley that well.
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post #6 of 118 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 2008, 04:42 PM
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Re: Venus beat Serena by. . .

I also imagine all the men will also be watching how to take down Federer on grass.

Rena- a tennis great! 22 at striking distance.
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post #7 of 118 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 2008, 05:17 PM
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Re: Venus beat Serena by. . .

Venus beat Serena by simply playing smart consistent from the baseline, and waiting for Serena to self destruct. This match in my opinion is very similiar to the one they played in the U.S open in 2001. Serena started out playing really well, but then suddenly dropped her level after getting off to a good start. Serena needs to find the form and mentality she had against pova at the australian open last year, and even in Miami against Justine this year. In those matches she was able to maintain a level of focus and consistency up unitl the last shot, hitting hard deep returns, winning most of the baseline rallies with controlled agression, as well as finding the angles. Posters have claimed that it has been Serena's lack of movement which has impacted her play, despite the fact that she won in australian not being her fittest. This match in my opinion could have gone the other way around had Serena been able to keep her concentration on the big points and capatalize on her on break points chances. Serena I think in grand slam matches just needs to find the zone, and stay in it for an entire match, instead getting so down and out on herself and becoming too emotional.
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post #8 of 118 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 2008, 05:43 PM
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Re: Venus beat Serena by. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-GIRL87 View Post
Venus beat Serena by simply playing smart consistent from the baseline, and waiting for Serena to self destruct. This match in my opinion is very similiar to the one they played in the U.S open in 2001. Serena started out playing really well, but then suddenly dropped her level after getting off to a good start.
This is exactly what I told another friend. Like at the US Open 2001, Venus again showed her mental fortitude and superior athleticism. For every blazing shot of depth and speed that Serena fired toward her, the reply would have even greater depth and higher speed. She simply forced Serena to go for too much, just as she's done other players in the past The match was not great, but basically good--- I'm pleased that it was not as pathetic as some of their previous meetings .

"I love the game, I love the thrill, I love the "Go Venus`."
"It takes a lot of work to get to this level, so while I can play I'm going to play."

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post #9 of 118 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 2008, 06:04 PM
 
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Re: Venus beat Serena by. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-GIRL87 View Post
Venus beat Serena by simply playing smart consistent from the baseline, and waiting for Serena to self destruct. This match in my opinion is very similiar to the one they played in the U.S open in 2001. Serena started out playing really well, but then suddenly dropped her level after getting off to a good start. Serena needs to find the form and mentality she had against pova at the australian open last year, and even in Miami against Justine this year. In those matches she was able to maintain a level of focus and consistency up unitl the last shot, hitting hard deep returns, winning most of the baseline rallies with controlled agression, as well as finding the angles. Posters have claimed that it has been Serena's lack of movement which has impacted her play, despite the fact that she won in australian not being her fittest. This match in my opinion could have gone the other way around had Serena been able to keep her concentration on the big points and capatalize on her on break points chances. Serena I think in grand slam matches just needs to find the zone, and stay in it for an entire match, instead getting so down and out on herself and becoming too emotional.
Agreed.

I didn't see any alarming strategy from Venus in this match besides serving to her body. The problems that Serena is having during big matches didn't start with the Wimbledon final. When she wants something badly her game becomes tentative and she begins to self-destruct. Not only was this trend present in some of the matches she won this year, but came full circle at the French Open.

In my opinion, she did a better job at Wimbledon with controlling her nerves but fell short in the finals after starting out well. But I imagined that getting back to another Wimbledon final after five years would weigh more heavily on her so the result was expected. This is something that Serena needs to work on and the best way is to play more.

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Originally Posted by AcesHigh
I'll say this in public once. I miss serena so much. Fed is my favorite player but no one does it like her.

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post #10 of 118 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 2008, 06:05 PM
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Re: Venus beat Serena by. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-GIRL87 View Post
Venus beat Serena by simply playing smart consistent from the baseline, and waiting for Serena to self destruct. This match in my opinion is very similiar to the one they played in the U.S open in 2001. Serena started out playing really well, but then suddenly dropped her level after getting off to a good start. Serena needs to find the form and mentality she had against pova at the australian open last year, and even in Miami against Justine this year. In those matches she was able to maintain a level of focus and consistency up unitl the last shot, hitting hard deep returns, winning most of the baseline rallies with controlled agression, as well as finding the angles. Posters have claimed that it has been Serena's lack of movement which has impacted her play, despite the fact that she won in australian not being her fittest. This match in my opinion could have gone the other way around had Serena been able to keep her concentration on the big points and capatalize on her on break points chances. Serena I think in grand slam matches just needs to find the zone, and stay in it for an entire match, instead getting so down and out on herself and becoming too emotional.
Venus was too tough for Serena IMO... Serena relies heavily on that one shot winner play... Against Venus that doesnt work cause shes so fast..... IMO for Serena to have beaten Venus saturday she would have needed to have a net game... which she doesnt.... Serena can hit a reflex volley fine, but from what ive seen she cant hit a good put away volley to save her life..... Everytime she tried (which was rare, but Serena looked akward and uneasy everytime she went up to the net) she dink it into the court and Venus being the fastest player on tour got their easily to hit the winner....

But yeah Venus did beat her by doing what Shriver/ carillo always say when they comment on a williams match "If (opponent) would just hit it at them and make them get out of their own way they'd prolly fair better..

Serena talked about the body serves and how now she knows what to expect.... but I just dont see how shes gonna prepare for this... 129 mph serves into the body.... good luck with that Serena (For some reason i dont think Venus will let Serena practice returning them on the practice court...)

Venus Ebony Starr


Serena Williams

Sharapova

Hantuchova
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post #11 of 118 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 2008, 06:13 PM
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Re: Venus beat Serena by. . .

Venus' own weaknesses were aided by this grass surface. Her slice second serve was very effective on the grass, and it was harder for Serena to attack it whereas on hardcourts those serves would have been pummeled. Serena's kick serve to the backhand is really not as effective on grass as it would be on hardcourts, it just sat up high in Venus' strikezone and she pummeled it. Serena was attacking Venus' forehand down in the beginning of the match, pummeling it with shots with a lot of spin, and she was able to attack the short reply from Venus. Serena knew exactly where and how Venus would serve every time, she knows Venus' game. Venus does not know Serena's game as well, and Venus employed no clever strategy to beat Serena besides serving into the body. Then, as Venus began to serve more intelligently and into the body she stopped doing that and began engaging in backhand to backhand encounters with Venus, which puts Serena at a disadvantage. On grass, Serena didnt have as much time to adjust to an into the body serve from Venus as she can on any other surface. Then when she tried to attack the forehand again towards the end of the match, not only was Venus confidence in the shot so high at that point, but Serena wasn't throwing a lot of junk at Venus' forehand and making her come up with a shot. She really just started rallying with the forehand hoping it would break down, but down 5-7, 5-4 in a Wimbledon final against Venus, thats not going to happen. And even with all of Venus' advantages, her serve, her superior athleticism and speed, her net game, Serena kept it extremely competitive and only lost because she played the big points horribly. How many return errors on second serves did she make when she had break point? Purely mental lapses. As much as the grass neutralizes Venus' weaknesses, the hardcourts are not as merciful. I cant wait for a match on the hardcourts.


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post #12 of 118 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 2008, 06:19 PM
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Re: Venus beat Serena by. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tennisstar86 View Post
Venus was too tough for Serena IMO... Serena relies heavily on that one shot winner play... Against Venus that doesnt work cause shes so fast..... IMO for Serena to have beaten Venus saturday she would have needed to have a net game... which she doesnt.... Serena can hit a reflex volley fine, but from what ive seen she cant hit a good put away volley to save her life..... Everytime she tried (which was rare, but Serena looked akward and uneasy everytime she went up to the net) she dink it into the court and Venus being the fastest player on tour got their easily to hit the winner....

But yeah Venus did beat her by doing what Shriver/ carillo always say when they comment on a williams match "If (opponent) would just hit it at them and make them get out of their own way they'd prolly fair better..

Serena talked about the body serves and how now she knows what to expect.... but I just dont see how shes gonna prepare for this... 129 mph serves into the body.... good luck with that Serena (For some reason i dont think Venus will let Serena practice returning them on the practice court...)
If anyone thinks Venus won only because of the body serves, they're simply deluded. She kept Serena behind the baseline , her serves were on, the double faults were down, her errors were relatively tame, and her usual mental fortitude won out in the end.

"I love the game, I love the thrill, I love the "Go Venus`."
"It takes a lot of work to get to this level, so while I can play I'm going to play."

Venus Ebone Starr Williams
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post #13 of 118 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 2008, 06:24 PM
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Re: Venus beat Serena by. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infiniti2001 View Post
If anyone thinks Venus won only because of the body serves, they're simply deluded. She kept Serena behind the baseline , her serves were on, the double faults were down, her errors were relatively tame, and her usual mental fortitude won out in the end.
The body serves and the surface. Dont forget the surface.


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post #14 of 118 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 2008, 06:33 PM
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Re: Venus beat Serena by. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infiniti2001 View Post
If anyone thinks Venus won only because of the body serves, they're simply deluded. She kept Serena behind the baseline , her serves were on, the double faults were down, her errors were relatively tame, and her usual mental fortitude won out in the end.
Did you read my post...... lol

anyways... people talk about how serena rarely plays a match from start to finish anymore where she is just on fire... but when has she ever done it when her opponent hasnt just rolled over? This isnt a new problem... yeah she blitzed Sharapova and henin but in both of those matches neither girl showed Serena anything different or any fight.... so it was easy for her to stay "in the zone"

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Sharapova

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post #15 of 118 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 2008, 06:33 PM
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Re: Venus beat Serena by. . .



Geeze you people.......... we all knew coming into this match it was a family decision that it was Venus' turn to beat Serena in a Grand Slam. Now quit trying to make it look like Venus outplayed Serena..


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