Serena subpar from the baseline?? - TennisForum.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 44 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2008, 04:19 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
AcesHigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 10,199
                     
Serena subpar from the baseline??

I haven't watched much of Serena's matches this Wimbledon(only seen her match against Mauresmo and second set against Jie Zheng), but it seems that even with her dominating performances, her play from the baseline isnt AMAZING as the statistics would tell.

Her serve has beeen AMAZING and her groundstrokes seem to definitely be on.

HOWEVER, what I've heard from some posters and some fans I know.. and from what little I've seen, it seems that when Serena is actually forced into a rally, she is not as dominant. Her footwork seems suspect and we all know her speed is not the same since 2003. I'm not sure she's been tested in that way yet.

I just think many people aren't taking this into account. Her greatest asset IMO in the final will be her consistency in serving and off the ground. She's a lot less likely to make UFE's and DF's. And she'll definitely need to capitalize on Vee's very weak second serve and bad patches. But Venus is definitely going to move Serena around with punishing groundstrokes moreso than anyone Serena has faced so far.

I'm not saying Venus is the favorite(although I do believe that), but I just don't think the serve will be as much a factor as people believe. Serena has a ton of aces, but Venus is the best returner she'll have faced the entire tournament. Venus has a much wider reach than Aga or Jie and IMHO, Serena will have to win it from the baseline.

I just wanted the opinion of everyone who's watched her so far as to how her baseline play and her MOVEMENT especially so far at Wimbledon.

I always wanted to be somebody. If I made it, it's half because I was game enough to take a lot of punishment along the way and half because there were a lot of people who cared enough to help me.
-Althea Gibson


Quote:
Originally Posted by darrinbaker00 View Post
When will you learn that "pushers" never make it past the club level, let alone #1 on the WTA computer? Will it be too late?
AcesHigh is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 44 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2008, 04:20 AM
Senior Member
 
supergrunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,589
                     
Re: Serena subpar from the baseline??

Zheng was really going for it on every shot. She had nothing to lose. In the first set she didn't really have any answers to Serena's baseline game or serve.
supergrunt is offline  
post #3 of 44 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2008, 04:21 AM
Senior Member
 
supergrunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,589
                     
Re: Serena subpar from the baseline??

in the second she let up
supergrunt is offline  
post #4 of 44 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2008, 04:22 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,316
                     
Re: Serena subpar from the baseline??

I agree, she has looked awkward regularly and her footwork has been poor ever since 2005, but it seems at least better at this years Wimbledon than the last one lol.

Quote:
I think with her serve and her athleticism, her power, her court mobility, I just think when she’s on, she’s the greatest player we’ve ever seen, ever. Now, whether her record is the greatest remains to be seen because she hasn’t retired yet. But I think she is really the greatest player. I have seen Martina and Steffi at their best. There are little chinks in those players’ armor, but it was a different era, where you didn’t need to be the perfect player.
Chris Evert
16
Thanx4nothin is offline  
post #5 of 44 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2008, 04:27 AM
Dessalines
 
Stamp Paid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: ...
Posts: 48,900
                     
Re: Serena subpar from the baseline??

Worried much?


█████████████████ʘ
Stamp Paid is offline  
post #6 of 44 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2008, 04:30 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,149
                     
Re: Serena subpar from the baseline??

Basically everytime the rally starts on equal footing (with no serious advantage because of serve or return), she looks at best mediocre. Not only she tends to make errors, but the weight of shot isn't really there (in terms of depth and power). I actually thought that today she hit the ball better than in previous rounds, but still Zheng managed to outplay her from the baseline. I don't think this is something new or anything. This has been Serena's story since last year. Huge serves and returns, but everything else is suspect and inconsistent. Of course though we still get the occasional complete dominance (a la Sharapova in the AO final) but that has become more of an exception than the rule.

Anyway I wouldn't worry too much if I was a Serena fan. Her serve is huge and reliable enough to get her far into tournaments.
Apoleb is offline  
post #7 of 44 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2008, 04:33 AM
Senior Member
 
supergrunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,589
                     
Re: Serena subpar from the baseline??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoleb View Post
Basically everytime the rally starts on equal footing (with no serious advantage because of serve or return), she looks at best mediocre. Not only she tends to make errors, but the weight of shot isn't really there (in terms of depth and power). I actually thought that today she hit the ball better than in previous rounds, but still Zheng managed to outplay her from the baseline. I don't think this is something new or anything. This has been Serena's story since last year. Huge serves and returns, but everything else is suspect and inconsistent. Of course though we still get the occasional complete dominance (a la Sharapova in the AO final) but that has become more of an exception than the rule.

Anyway I wouldn't worry too much if I was a Serena fan. Her serve is huge and reliable enough to get her far into tournaments.
I think her groundstrokes have been good this year on a whole. This Wimbledon I must say though has been horrendous. It has been the worst groundstroking that I have ever seen her do to be honest so I guess this tournament is just an exception.
supergrunt is offline  
post #8 of 44 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2008, 04:39 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,149
                     
Re: Serena subpar from the baseline??

Quote:
Originally Posted by supergrunt View Post
I think her groundstrokes have been good this year on a whole. This Wimbledon I must say though has been horrendous. It has been the worst groundstroking that I have ever seen her do to be honest so I guess this tournament is just an exception.
Grass has something to do with it. You need better footwork and timing on grass because of low and bad bounces. In one way, grass is an advantage for Serena (because of the serve) but it could be a disadvantage that exposes her current weaknesess (footwork).

Of course she could shut us all up on saturday. She's done it before where she comes out storming out of nowhere. But Venus is going to seriously test her movement. This is not 2002/2003 anymore, cause the game of Serena especially has changed considerably.
Apoleb is offline  
post #9 of 44 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2008, 04:40 AM
Senior Member
 
Perseust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Out There
Posts: 14,338
                     
Re: Serena subpar from the baseline??

thats the thing...
she has been serving aces to small people...
and from
Jies height of 5'4" to
Venuss 6'2" frame..
and thats a huge gap...

and i wasnt really a huge fan of her baseline...
from what i saw...
Venus changes pace in the rally..
while Serena hasnt really done that much
Perseust is offline  
post #10 of 44 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2008, 05:16 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 394
                     
Re: Serena subpar from the baseline??

Speaking as a Serena fan, I'm concerned about this. I agree with the guy who pointed that whenever they got into the rally, almost right away Serena would be on the defensive. Part of this is of course Zheng Jie being very aggressive, but it's also got with Serena somehow always being on her back foot as soon as it's a rally. I hope this won't happen in the final, because I don't think she can beat Venus on Saturday unless her ground game is on.

I believe she will be fine though, because it seems from the interviews that she is willing to do anything to win. If that means that her "instinctual" footwork/ferocity will come out and replace her tentative playing, then so be it.

She's just trying to contain that monster inside. Let it out Serena.

Current Tennis Era: Serenaissance (since 2007)
Nobody's Perfecc is offline  
post #11 of 44 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2008, 05:19 AM
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
fufuqifuqishahah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 16,169
                     
Re: Serena subpar from the baseline??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoleb View Post
Basically everytime the rally starts on equal footing (with no serious advantage because of serve or return), she looks at best mediocre. Not only she tends to make errors, but the weight of shot isn't really there (in terms of depth and power). I actually thought that today she hit the ball better than in previous rounds, but still Zheng managed to outplay her from the baseline. I don't think this is something new or anything. This has been Serena's story since last year. Huge serves and returns, but everything else is suspect and inconsistent. Of course though we still get the occasional complete dominance (a la Sharapova in the AO final) but that has become more of an exception than the rule.

Anyway I wouldn't worry too much if I was a Serena fan. Her serve is huge and reliable enough to get her far into tournaments.
she dominated sharapova very much only on serve and return. those points in the AO final were ridiculously short.

fufuqifuqishahah is offline  
post #12 of 44 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2008, 05:23 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,149
                     
Re: Serena subpar from the baseline??

Quote:
Originally Posted by fufuqifuqishahah View Post
she dominated sharapova very much only on serve and return. those points in the AO final were ridiculously short.
Actually you're right. But she did come up with excellent shots from unbalanced positions. But in general you're right. Her movement wasn't that tested in that match.
Apoleb is offline  
post #13 of 44 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2008, 05:23 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 238
                     
Re: Serena subpar from the baseline??

I really do not think Serena is going to win, I know everyone is talking about their head to head results in slam finals, but that is when Serena was at the top oehr game. I think as they have gotten older Venus is better, and she really wants to win 2 to 3 more Wimbledon titles. Venus may not express it as Serena does, but this Wimbledon title means a lot to her, and I think she going to win, and I am going to out on the limb and say she is also going to win the US Open. ( I know call me crazy .
virtue05 is offline  
post #14 of 44 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2008, 05:26 AM
 
harloo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wonderland Arts Society
Posts: 18,685
                     
Re: Serena subpar from the baseline??

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcesHigh View Post
I haven't watched much of Serena's matches this Wimbledon(only seen her match against Mauresmo and second set against Jie Zheng), but it seems that even with her dominating performances, her play from the baseline isnt AMAZING as the statistics would tell.

Her serve has beeen AMAZING and her groundstrokes seem to definitely be on.

HOWEVER, what I've heard from some posters and some fans I know.. and from what little I've seen, it seems that when Serena is actually forced into a rally, she is not as dominant. Her footwork seems suspect and we all know her speed is not the same since 2003. I'm not sure she's been tested in that way yet.

I just think many people aren't taking this into account. Her greatest asset IMO in the final will be her consistency in serving and off the ground. She's a lot less likely to make UFE's and DF's. And she'll definitely need to capitalize on Vee's very weak second serve and bad patches. But Venus is definitely going to move Serena around with punishing groundstrokes moreso than anyone Serena has faced so far.

I'm not saying Venus is the favorite(although I do believe that), but I just don't think the serve will be as much a factor as people believe. Serena has a ton of aces, but Venus is the best returner she'll have faced the entire tournament. Venus has a much wider reach than Aga or Jie and IMHO, Serena will have to win it from the baseline.

I just wanted the opinion of everyone who's watched her so far as to how her baseline play and her MOVEMENT especially so far at Wimbledon.
Your cover has been blown. Stop the nonsense Aceshigh, this isn't about Serena's suspect movement but more about how you think Venus will thrash her in the final.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcesHigh
I'll say this in public once. I miss serena so much. Fed is my favorite player but no one does it like her.

harloo is offline  
post #15 of 44 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2008, 05:28 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,343
                     
Re: Serena subpar from the baseline??

I said this last year at Wimbledon where I thought she was practically pushing the ball a la AMG. But i was lambasted by other Serena fans. watch her MOlik match where she was def. subpar off the ground. Molik moves like a turtle yet Serena was losing baselines rallies to her a lot.

I think from AO-Miami last year she was hitting the ball very hard and dictating in most of the baseline rallies, up to the final where all her groundstrokes deserted her. And from there after she started pushing. Then this year at AO I thought she was dictating a little more, and same for Miami, Charleston (didn't see her play after till RG). She was makign more UE but dictating off the ground more. So to me it seems like she'll play a horrendous match where all her groundstrokes are awful and then she'll start to pull back. And start adding more spin and pushing the ball in the court. It seems like a confidence issue. I think that combined w/ her lack of fitness and speed makes her more defensive off the ground. Instead of going for big shots and killing herself w/ UE she slowly builds up confidence in her groundstrokes. But for now this is her game and I patiently await the real Serena groundstrokes to come back.
starin is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Image Verification
Please enter the six letters or digits that appear in the image opposite.

Registration Image

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome