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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2008, 03:42 AM Thread Starter
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The Old Order Changeth

I don't like writing that. I rather like the old order. But 'generations' in the WTA are short things. An individual player might be dominant for a long time. But groups of players come and go in five-to-eight year periods. And with the retirements of Henin, Hingis and Clijsters, the cohort that was born from 1978-1983 has more or less had it's run. It's not to say that Venus or Serena can't win more slams. But constant presence in GS semis is clearly a thing of the past for both of them.


Couple that with the third member of the next generation getting her first slam, it now clear that the next generation has taken over. I didn't want to admit that Chris Evert had supplanted Billie Jean King. I didn't want to admit that Steffi Graf had supplanted Martina Navratilova. This is easier, cause it's group vs group, not individuals. But it's going to be Kuznetsova and Ivanovic and Sharapova and Jankovic who make more GS semis than they miss. Venus and/or Serena Williams may win a slam here and there, but third and fourth round exits are now becoming almost commonplace, rather than unheard-of.


We may be five years from clsoing the book on Gen80. But if you think about it, Davenport is from a previous tennisgen. All that's left of Gen80 is Venus, Serena and Elena Dementieva. And all three of them are less dominant than at their respective peaks.


It's not time to write the post-mortem yet, but youngsters had pretty much supplanted the old guard. Cie C'est la vie.

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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2008, 03:56 AM
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Re: The Old Order Changeth

I've stated that during the AO. People didn't believe me. I think it really started there, even though 2007 gave a clear idea of what would come.

At AO 2008 the oldest semifinalist was Hantuchova; Sharapova had dismissed Henin, JJ Serena and Ana Venus. It was a clear indication.

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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2008, 04:05 AM
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Re: The Old Order Changeth

yeah, but wat would be the old age for tennis??? JJ is 23 and good results are still gonna come for her.

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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2008, 04:08 AM
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Re: The Old Order Changeth

I think you both are premature.

If Vee, Serena or any other "old guard" player doesn't come away with a slam or two this year, then I think you can make that pronouncement. It sounds like you're basing your assessments on age, but let's not forget their have been some very premature exits from the game that have had nothing to do with age- Juju, Hingy and Kim. Though they, except for Juju, wouldn't necessarily dominate, they certainly would be factors in any tournament they entered to this day.

So basically, what I'm saying is, I hope you're not basing your assessments so much on the age of those still in they game as much as on the absence of those elite player outside the game.

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Last edited by DOUBLEFIST; Jun 9th, 2008 at 07:13 AM. Reason: good sense. :rolleyes:
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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2008, 04:11 AM
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Re: The Old Order Changeth

un-huh... remember 2004.... honestly its too soon to tell... Venus and Serena could easily make the semis of all the slams next year (save RG) and Henin could choose to come out of retirement as could clijsters next year... you just never know...

Whats the 3rd round exits becoming routine? lol Venus lost 3rd round at RG where shes always sucked... shes got the best/ tied with Ivanovic for best GS results in the previous 4.

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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2008, 04:24 AM
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Re: The Old Order Changeth

Yup, it appears that way. I'm surprised at how few majors most of them won. In particular, I would have expected Serena to have won a lot more than 8 and Clijsters to have won a lot more than 1. I also would have expected Hingis to have won more than 5 and Davenport to have won more than 3. Henin actually wound up winning more than I expected (which sucks, because I hate her.) Venus and Mauresmo wound up winning about as many as I expected. Dementieva also did better than I expected, because I never expected her to get to a final.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see who wins the most out of the current generation, which includes Sharapova, Ivanovic, Jankovic, Kuznetsova, Chakvetadze, Safina, Bartoli, Zvonareva, Radwanska, Szavay, Azarenka, Cornet, Vaidisova, Golovin, Kirilenko and Peer, among others.

(Edited to fix Hingis' major title count.)

Last edited by AnomyBC; Jun 9th, 2008 at 04:43 AM.
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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2008, 04:26 AM
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Re: The Old Order Changeth

Obit #(?) written for V&S!
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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2008, 04:32 AM
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Re: The Old Order Changeth

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnomyBC View Post
Yup, it appears that way. I'm surprised at how few majors most of them won. In particular, I would have expected Serena to have won a lot more than 8 and Clijsters to have won a lot more than 1. I also would have expected Hingis to have won more than 6 and Davenport to have won more than 3. Henin actually wound up winning more than I expected (which sucks, because I hate her.) Venus and Mauresmo wound up winning about as many as I expected. Dementieva also did better than I expected, because I never expected her to get to a final.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see who wins the most out of the current generation, which includes Sharapova, Ivanovic, Jankovic, Kuznetsova, Chakvetadze, Safina, Bartoli, Zvonareva, Radwanska, Szavay, Azarenka, Cornet, Vaidisova, Golovin, Kirilenko and Peer, among others.
Hingis didnt end with 6.... Dementieva's days arent over yet neither are Serenas or Venus' lol.....

Venus Ebone Starr


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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2008, 04:35 AM
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Re: The Old Order Changeth

Blue = top five.
Red = top ten.

Ivanovic, Sharapova, Chakvetadze - 1987.
Safina. - 1986.
Kuznetsova, Jankovic - 1985.
Bartoli - 1984.
Dementieva, S. Williams - 1981.
V. Williams - 1980.


Chakvetadze was top five not very long ago, same as Serena. Serena and Elena will alternate the #5 position for awhile, probably. Bartoli will be exiting soon, and any range of Hantuchova (1983), Schnyder (1979), and Zvonareva (1984) will be ready to pounce.

So, of the top fifteen, the youngest are Radwanska and Szavay (89, 88 respectively). And they're the lowest ranked of the fifteen.

We still haven't entirely transitioned. Dementieva, Williams, Williams, Schnyder, Hantuchova, Zvonareva, and Bartoli are still around and in the top fifteen, although I'm not sure how much of a threat they are to the biggest titles (add in the word "consistently" if you're offended by this applying to your favorite), even with this transitional period up at the top.

It just amuses me Kuznetsova and Sharapova have been household names (to tennis fans) for at least half a decade now nearly. I guess it just shows how young they were when they broke out that they'll still be challenging for these titles for a few years to come.

What's most frustrating is that the sisters and Dementieva can't take advantage of this time period now, at least moreso than they are now. Oh well. I still have Lindsay for the remainder of this year...I'll treasure that as long as I can.
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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2008, 04:35 AM
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Re: The Old Order Changeth

Quote:
It sounds like you're basing your assessments on age
It has nothing to do with age, it's just based on the fact that the Belgians (and Hingis and Capriati and probably Davenport and Mauresmo very soon) are retired and the Williams sisters have both won only 2 major titles in almost 5 years. Unless the Williams make a comeback or the Belgians come out of retirement, then that generation is pretty much over. (I do think Serena will probably win at least 1 or 2 more major titles though.)
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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2008, 04:41 AM
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Re: The Old Order Changeth

Quote:
Hingis didnt end with 6....
Ugh, it was only 5 wasn't it? I think I'm still in denial about her losing to Majoli
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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2008, 04:43 AM
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Re: The Old Order Changeth

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Originally Posted by AnomyBC View Post
It has nothing to do with age, it's just based on the fact that the Belgians (and Hingis and Capriati and probably Davenport and Mauresmo very soon) are retired and the Williams sisters have both won only 2 major titles in almost 5 years. Unless the Williams make a comeback or the Belgians come out of retirement, then that generation is pretty much over. (I do think Serena will probably win at least 1 or 2 more major titles though.)
only 2 majors lol.... most players dont win 1..... They arent gonna win this all, but they are still winning them....I think its interesting that Serena who currently holds no major title will win 1 to 2 more while venus who holds wimbledon and dominates on grass is done...

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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2008, 04:47 AM
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Re: The Old Order Changeth

Its always safe to write off Venus and Serena during Clay Court Season...

...let's see how they do at Wimbledon and the US Open before we turn the page ...

...although if you keep writing this crap every year, eventually you'll be correct.
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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2008, 01:37 PM
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Re: The Old Order Changeth

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwifan View Post
Its always safe to write off Venus and Serena during Clay Court Season...

...let's see how they do at Wimbledon and the US Open before we turn the page ...

I totally concur with you. If they put in a dismal performance in this phase of the season then I'll concede but presently I'm not there yet. The Sisters still have the game to contend with any of these top players. I'm still of the belief that they still have at least 2-3 years contention still left in them because I don't see any of these younger girls dominating the game like any of the veterans did.

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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old Jun 9th, 2008, 02:04 PM
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Re: The Old Order Changeth

Ajde.
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