Which is more impressive? - TennisForum.com
View Poll Results: Which is more impressive?
Venus's dominance at Wimbledon 28 31.82%
Justine's dominance at Roland Garros 60 68.18%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 57 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2007, 09:13 PM Thread Starter
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Which is more impressive?

Justine's dominance at Roland Garros or Venus's ownage of Wimbledon. I'll give some stats to help:

Winning % at respective slams
Venus - 88%
Justine - 90%

W/L record
Venus - 51-7
Justine - 35-4

Titles won/Tournaments entered
Venus - 4/11
Justine - 4/8

Slam champions defeated on way to title
Venus-
Hingis('00)
Serena('00)
Davenport('00,'01,'03,'05)
Henin('01,'02)
Clijsters('03)
Pierce('05)
Sharapova('05,'07)
Kuznetsova('07)

Justine-
Serena('03,'07)
Clijsters('03,'06)
Kuznetsova('05,'06)
Sharapova('05)
Pierce('05)
Myskina('06)

Players they lost to
Venus(Grzybowska 1997, Novotna 1998, Graf 1999, Serena 2002-2003, Sprem 2004, Jankovic 2006)
Justine(Davenport 1999, Clijsters 2001, Kapros 2002, Garbin 2004)



[I'll edit this post later, adding more details.]

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Originally Posted by darrinbaker00 View Post
When will you learn that "pushers" never make it past the club level, let alone #1 on the WTA computer? Will it be too late?
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post #2 of 57 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2007, 09:22 PM
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Re: Which is more impressive?

Justine in RG.
Venus in wimbledon is amazing too, but Justine feels so comfortable in there in the court, the crowd and she has no strang loses (exept Garbin but she was injured)in she won it 3 times in a row..

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post #3 of 57 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2007, 09:33 PM
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Re: Which is more impressive?

I had no idea Venus beat Lindsay four times at Wimbledon.

Four titles, two finals, two quarterfinals, one third round, one second round, one first round as opposed to four wins (three in a row), one semifinal, two second rounds, and a first round.

That's tough. Good question, Aces. My heart says Venus cuz I'm a fan, but you can't denounce three slams in a row and a 90% winning percentage.

Although Venus has faced, arguably, tougher competition to her titles...
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post #4 of 57 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2007, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Which is more impressive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LudwigDvorak View Post
I had no idea Venus beat Lindsay four times at Wimbledon.

Four titles, two finals, two quarterfinals, one third round, one second round, one first round as opposed to four wins (three in a row), one semifinal, two second rounds, and a first round.

That's tough. Good question, Aces. My heart says Venus cuz I'm a fan, but you can't denounce three slams in a row and a 90% winning percentage.

Although Venus has faced, arguably, tougher competition to her titles...
I can't really choose and I tried to make my first post as unbiased as possible in presenting the stats.
However, I think you bring up something important and also, there's the fact that of all the great players this generation, most of them are MUCH better on grass and make tougher competition at Wimbledon. These days, not many women excel on the clay surface, and although it isn't the most important factor in deciding which is more impressive, it's key, IMO, to consider Venus lost twice in the final to someone playing arguably the best tennis we have ever seen, on her best surface.

I always wanted to be somebody. If I made it, it's half because I was game enough to take a lot of punishment along the way and half because there were a lot of people who cared enough to help me.
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Originally Posted by darrinbaker00 View Post
When will you learn that "pushers" never make it past the club level, let alone #1 on the WTA computer? Will it be too late?
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post #5 of 57 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2007, 09:45 PM
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Re: Which is more impressive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcesHigh View Post
I can't really choose and I tried to make my first post as unbiased as possible in presenting the stats.
However, I think you bring up something important and also, there's the fact that of all the great players this generation, most of them are MUCH better on grass and make tougher competition at Wimbledon. These days, not many women excel on the clay surface, and although it isn't the most important factor in deciding which is more impressive, it's key, IMO, to consider Venus lost twice in the final to someone playing arguably the best tennis we have ever seen, on her best surface.
yeah. I'm a Venus fan so I'm biased but I think the competition on grass is much harder than it is on clay. And Venus has been to the finals of Wimbledon 6/8 years. And she's had some amazing moments at Wimbledon. And she's the lowest seed to win Wimbledon and she's pretty much come from nowhere to win Wimbledon twice.
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post #6 of 57 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2007, 09:45 PM
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Re: Which is more impressive?

In Slam Champions defeated on way to title some of those wins were against players who hadn't won a slam at that time.

Anyway, i think the way in which Venus won Wimbledon is more impressive as with her 2005 & 2007 wins she was definately not expected to win and was certainly not playing like a Wimbledon champ the rest of the season. I find it more impressive that Venus can do this, as in a way it is expected that Justine will win RG. It whould perhaps not be that way as both are equally superb stats when considered in isolation, but i just can't help being more impressed by Venus!

I will always love Daniela but sometimes it's nice to support players who actually win - so thanks Kim!
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post #7 of 57 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2007, 09:47 PM
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Re: Which is more impressive?

justine.

all the haters laughed when she lost to garbin in 2004 and next year it will be 4 years she didn't lose there.

all the haters laughed also at this wimbledon, but they don't laugh anymore.

at least, everyone knows now about garbin and bartoli
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post #8 of 57 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2007, 09:47 PM
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Re: Which is more impressive?

Well, it's kind of subjective, no? The Henin fans will vote for her, and Venus fans for Venus. But I think to make this kind of comparison you have to wait till the end of their career. As you know, Justine is younger than Venus, and she played only 8 RG's, and won 4(all of them in the last 5 years). Venus played Wimbledon 11 times, and won it 4 times, which is very impressive too.

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post #9 of 57 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2007, 09:50 PM
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Re: Which is more impressive?

Justine, when was the last time she lost a set there? Noone is even close to her on clay, I don't think Venus dominates grass as much as Justine dominates clay
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post #10 of 57 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2007, 09:55 PM
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Re: Which is more impressive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dAnFan View Post
Justine, when was the last time she lost a set there? Noone is even close to her on clay, I don't think Venus dominates grass as much as Justine dominates clay
I wonder if the OP could add in stats regarding sets won/lost? That would definitely help show dominance.
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post #11 of 57 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2007, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Which is more impressive?

In the last three years, Justine has lost 2 sets. During her 4 wins, she has lost a total of 4 sets.

Impressive.

I always wanted to be somebody. If I made it, it's half because I was game enough to take a lot of punishment along the way and half because there were a lot of people who cared enough to help me.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrinbaker00 View Post
When will you learn that "pushers" never make it past the club level, let alone #1 on the WTA computer? Will it be too late?
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post #12 of 57 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2007, 10:02 PM
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Re: Which is more impressive?

justine is more impressive she totally owns that surface
venus is quite good too but over the years all comparisions will cease to exist because justine will overtake venus at least in this comparision
i.e. she will win more french than venus will win more wimbledons
because she is devoted to tennis and its not a fourth or fifth priority like the williams sisters

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post #13 of 57 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2007, 10:09 PM
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Re: Which is more impressive?

Most players are much more familiar with clay than grass as only a few tournaments a year are played on grass. Therefore, more players should have a better chance at winning the FO than Wimbledon. For that reason, I would say that Justine^s dominance on clay is more impressive than Venus^s success on grass. Whatever, both ladies accomplishments are very impressive!
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post #14 of 57 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2007, 10:13 PM
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Re: Which is more impressive?

Don't forget Venus doesn't play grass lead-ups at all. Almost all of her grass stats come from Wimbledon.

Although if you look at Justine's record at non-RG clay events the years she did win RG, they're pretty exemplary.

2007:
W - Warsaw
SF - Berlin

2006:
F - Berlin
SF - Charleston
+ 2 top 10 wins on clay in Fed Cup

2005:
W - Charleston, Warsaw, Berlin

2003:
W - Charleston, Berlin
SF - Amelia Island

Venus, on contrast, has two 2R losses at Eastbourne in 1997 and 1998, and that's it. So true domination on each surface can't really be compared. Although each are definitely the respective best on their ideal surfaces.
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post #15 of 57 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 2007, 10:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Which is more impressive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrust View Post
Most players are much more familiar with clay than grass as only a few tournaments a year are played on grass. Therefore, more players should have a better chance at winning the FO than Wimbledon. For that reason, I would say that Justine^s dominance on clay is more impressive than Venus^s success on grass. Whatever, both ladies accomplishments are very impressive!
That makes sense, but that's not how it is. Truth is, the top players usually falter on clay and excel on faster surfaces(hardcourts, grass).

So on one side, you have tougher competition for Venus
On the other, Justine has been almost perfect on clay in Paris. Very close IMO, although it seems to lean in Henin's favor.

I always wanted to be somebody. If I made it, it's half because I was game enough to take a lot of punishment along the way and half because there were a lot of people who cared enough to help me.
-Althea Gibson


Quote:
Originally Posted by darrinbaker00 View Post
When will you learn that "pushers" never make it past the club level, let alone #1 on the WTA computer? Will it be too late?
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