Are Americans simply subpar in tennis? - TennisForum.com

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post #1 of 46 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2007, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
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Are Americans simply subpar in tennis?

1 T1 title out of nine does not seem to bode well for the American women in tennis. Yeah, there are two Slams, and there might be a few more, but I'm not sure the playing field is even anymore.

Are the American women simply not good enough anymore?

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post #2 of 46 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2007, 12:48 PM
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Re: Are Americans simply subpar in tennis?

they lack numbers that is all....if they still had the numbers they once had it would be different....but when all you have is two players who play the game to their own tune you can't expect normal results....granted JH is the only belgian but she plays normal...the russians who are probably, if not, the greatest in number now, play normal schedules as well and therefore when two people who don't play normal schedules don't play that often you can't expect them to win lol

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post #3 of 46 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2007, 12:52 PM
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Re: Are Americans simply subpar in tennis?

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Originally Posted by Pureracket View Post
1 T1 title out of nine does not seem to bode well for the American women in tennis. Yeah, there are two Slams, and there might be a few more, but I'm not sure the playing field is even anymore.

Are the American women simply not good enough anymore?
Well American women in tennis are basically reduced to 2 players these days : Serena and Venus.
Serena only played 4 T1 and did quite well : win in Miami, final in Moscou, a qf against Schnyder at Rome (she lost only 7-6 in the 3rd) and a retirment in her first match at Charelston.
Venus results in T1 were quite bad but she only played 3 and lost against decent players (Sharapova, Jankovic and Chakvetadze).
The problem is that there is no sign of some young players able to play at the top level, when the others country have these players.Serbians have Ivanovic and Jankovic, Russians have plenty of young good players, Czechs have Vaidisova, Safarova etc.., even France has Golovin and now Cornet who could do some damages soon.
I can't think of a young US player atm who could be able to win big in the future.
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post #4 of 46 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2007, 02:28 PM
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Re: Are Americans simply subpar in tennis?

Usually a future great player impresses at Slams in their teens, not everyone can fulfill their potential but it is an indication of future success. Graf, Seles, Hingis and Serena won Slams in their teens, Navratilova made two slam finals when she was 19, Venus made US Open final when she was 17, Henin was in Wimbledon final when she was 19. From current youngsters, Ivanovic made RG final and Wimbledon semifinal, Vaidisova has two slam semis, Golovin reached US open QF last year. There is Sharapova of course. None of them are americans. All the US have now are the WS and a bunch of veterans in the top 100 and it doesn't seem to change in the near future.
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post #5 of 46 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2007, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are Americans simply subpar in tennis?

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Originally Posted by homogenius View Post
Well American women in tennis are basically reduced to 2 players these days : Serena and Venus.
Serena only played 4 T1 and did quite well : win in Miami, final in Moscou, a qf against Schnyder at Rome (she lost only 7-6 in the 3rd) and a retirment in her first match at Charelston.
Venus results in T1 were quite bad but she only played 3 and lost against decent players (Sharapova, Jankovic and Chakvetadze).
The problem is that there is no sign of some young players able to play at the top level, when the others country have these players.Serbians have Ivanovic and Jankovic, Russians have plenty of young good players, Czechs have Vaidisova, Safarova etc.., even France has Golovin and now Cornet who could do some damages soon.
I can't think of a young US player atm who could be able to win big in the future.
Even with the current state of US players, though, there seems to be a deficit @ the top. The top two American women were whipped rather soundly to foes that would normally be walkovers for them.

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post #6 of 46 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2007, 03:56 PM
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Re: Are Americans simply subpar in tennis?

The US is one of the most heterogeneous countries in the world. What exactly do you mean by "Americans"? Is there some typical genetic grouping that all or most Americans fall into? If so, then surely the WS wouldn't apply anyway. Or do you mean players that spent most of their developmental years training and practicing in America? If it's the latter, then a large number of top players are "American".

There's nothing wrong with American coaches or training facilities. Americans simply don't like playing pro tennis apparently. I don't think you can label Americans sub par at tennis anymore than you can label Russians sub par at American football.
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post #7 of 46 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2007, 03:58 PM
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Re: Are Americans simply subpar in tennis?

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Even with the current state of US players, though, there seems to be a deficit @ the top. The top two American women were whipped rather soundly to foes that would normally be walkovers for them.
They're getting "old".I saw a pic of Serena in Carig's sig and the woman was so fit it was scary.Look at her now.I'm sorry to say it like that, but even with her talent it's not possible for her to whipe the floor with the opposition like she used to do in the past.The game has improved, like on the men's side.It's very physical now and I think it's difficult for both Venus and Serena to be at the top of her game all year.Sure they can always manage her way to win in a slam here and there, but the game is very demanding and Serena for example has rarely easy matches.She simply as not the level (mainly physically) to do what she did in Miami all year.
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post #8 of 46 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2007, 04:01 PM
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Re: Are Americans simply subpar in tennis?

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The US is one of the most heterogeneous countries in the world. What exactly do you mean by "Americans"? Is there some typical genetic grouping that all or most Americans fall into? If so, then surely the WS wouldn't apply anyway. Or do you mean players that spent most of their developmental years training and practicing in America? If it's the latter, then a large number of top players are "American".

There's nothing wrong with American coaches or training facilities. Americans simply don't like playing pro tennis apparently. I don't think you can label Americans sub par at tennis anymore than you can label Russians sub par at American football.
Maybe he just meant "American players" as players from the US country ?
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post #9 of 46 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2007, 04:16 PM
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Re: Are Americans simply subpar in tennis?

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Maybe he just meant "American players" as players from the US country ?
That's my point: That way of thinking is irrational to me. If you're going to say "Players born in America are maybe sub par" then then it logically follows that you'd come up with some explanation as to why Americans, as a group, aren't more abundant in the top levels of the sport.

The Williams sisters and Davenport weren't all GS champions because they all happened to be American, especially in the case of the WS. They became grand slam champions because they had a father who was motivated to make them the best, and because they were supremely talented. Davenport also was supremely talented.

In other words: Being born in America says nothing about how likely you are to play tennis and become good at it. I could just as easily say that women named Marion are subpar at tennis.
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post #10 of 46 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2007, 04:18 PM
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Re: Are Americans simply subpar in tennis?

We're not sub par. We're just equal with other countries now. We used to be about 10 levels above, but now it's just equal. It just feels like we are doing poor because we have high standards.
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post #11 of 46 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2007, 04:25 PM
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Re: Are Americans simply subpar in tennis?

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Originally Posted by donnydarko View Post
That's my point: That way of thinking is irrational to me. If you're going to say "Players born in America are maybe sub par" then then it logically follows that you'd come up with some explanation as to why Americans, as a group, aren't more abundant in the top levels of the sport.

The Williams sisters and Davenport weren't all GS champions because they all happened to be American, especially in the case of the WS. They became grand slam champions because they had a father who was motivated to make them the best, and because they were supremely talented. Davenport also was supremely talented.

In other words: Being born in America says nothing about how likely you are to play tennis and become good at it. I could just as easily say that women named Marion are subpar at tennis.
If you think of it, the natural born player who had great results are Evert and King and after that there's a big gap to Capriati, Davenport and the WS.As you said, success of the sisters is mainly due to their father so US had very few top players juding by the population, the facilities etc...It was maybe masked by the fact that players like Seles or Navratilova became Americans but today it's flagrant.Why the US federation (USTA ?) isn't able to find talented young players and help them to become champs when Russia (for example)is able to do it with a lot less money and facilities ?
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post #12 of 46 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2007, 04:26 PM
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Re: Are Americans simply subpar in tennis?

Currently this is very simple. When at least one of The Sisters is really on top of her game, there are just a couple of players from elsewhere who can slug it out with them. But when the sisters are not playing or out of shape, it is really a thin air..

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post #13 of 46 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2007, 04:27 PM
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Re: Are Americans simply subpar in tennis?

I've read and have to agree that Tennis is not as popular in the US as it is in Europe, Eastern Europe, Russia etc. I also wonder if there is less competition here when players are younger. Just a thought, perhaps not based in fact.


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post #14 of 46 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2007, 04:27 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are Americans simply subpar in tennis?

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Originally Posted by donnydarko View Post
That's my point: That way of thinking is irrational to me. If you're going to say "Players born in America are maybe sub par" then then it logically follows that you'd come up with some explanation as to why Americans, as a group, aren't more abundant in the top levels of the sport.

The Williams sisters and Davenport weren't all GS champions because they all happened to be American, especially in the case of the WS. They became grand slam champions because they had a father who was motivated to make them the best, and because they were supremely talented. Davenport also was supremely talented.

In other words: Being born in America says nothing about how likely you are to play tennis and become good at it. I could just as easily say that women named Marion are subpar at tennis.
I see your point, but I certainly don't agree with it. You made an earlier post about facilities and such, and I agree; however, I do think that playing under the American flag does by in large make a difference, regardless of what route in the US was taken in order to get to the top.

Even with Richard doing what he did with his daughters, they were still after the "American dream" of success and wealth. As with the Williams Sisters(visiting Chrissie, hitting with John McEnroe, tutored by BJK), I'm sure Lindsay's legacy is partly attributed to the fact that she is an American woman.

Certainly, you can't be saying that the success of American female tennis players is incidental.

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post #15 of 46 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 2007, 04:28 PM
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Re: Are Americans simply subpar in tennis?

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Originally Posted by homogenius View Post
If you think of it, the natural born player who had great results are Evert and King and after that there's a big gap to Capriati, Davenport and the WS.As you said, success of the sisters is mainly due to their father so US had very few top players juding by the population, the facilities etc...It was maybe masked by the fact that players like Seles or Navratilova became Americans but today it's flagrant.Why the US federation (USTA ?) isn't able to find talented young players and help them to become champs when Russia (for example)is able to do it with a lot less money and facilities ?

Didn't (Sister)Jaegar and Austin retire prematurely?


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