Is the seeming disrespect for Justine due to a lack of American future prospects? - TennisForum.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 2007, 06:46 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,605
                     
Is the seeming disrespect for Justine due to a lack of American future prospects?

As I wrote elsewhere in a thread that was "moved", Justine is clearly the best women's player in the world right now.

She takes tennis very seriously and probably (I'm guessing here) has no life outside of tennis.

Even though she does all of the things that the pundits say that the Williams Sisters should be doing i.e. eating, drinking, and sleeping tennis, her accomplishments are still questioned.

Mary Carillo said that whoever won the Juju/Vee semi would have to be considered the number one player in the world.
Patrick McEnroe said that if she won the US Open that she would have to be considered the number one in the world.

HELLO????? Justine has been ranked number one for how many weeks?

And it seems that instead of celebrating the fact that Justine, who is a tennis machine a la Martina Navratilova, has won two majors in 2007, the big news is that she beat Serena everywhere except Miami and that she beat both Serena and Venus in this tournament.

Indeed there is so much made about her beating Serena and Venus in the same tournament that commentators make that seem more important than her winning the championship.

Is this because no matter what anyone accomplishes, the standard by which they will be forever judged is Venus and Serena?
Even despite Justine's accomplishments, I get the feeling that many people (not including the Williams and Henin fanbases) in the sport still believe that she's not the real deal. Kind of like Hingis was considered a bogus number one for a long time.

Almost every article mentions the Williams sisters who play very little yet are still able to step into the top ten and grab a major here and there with little or no preparation.

But it does show that no matter what the Willies do or don't do, they are still driving the story of women's tennis.
Frankly, I consider that disrepectful to Justine after all she's accomplished.

Again, maybe it's because everybody knows that after Vee and Rena leave that American women's tennis has practically no chance of a champion in the foreseeable future.
But it wasn't that long ago that they were considered bad for tennis.

Well, get over it. There was not an American in the US Open final this year. But hey, there was no Brit in the Wimby final, no Frenchwoman in the RG final and no Aussie in the AO final.

What the problem is?
HippityHop is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 2007, 06:53 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 392
                     
Re: Is the seeming disrespect for Justine due to a lack of American future prospects?

I think it's more a matter of unfortunate timing rather than thinly veiled xenophobia.
When the sisters burst onto the scene it was big news for a number of reasons.
Phenomenal talent, black, relatively impoverished background etc then they went and backed it up by winning loads of slams and kept their profiles up by courting the press.
People (not just tennis fans) are starting to take notice of Justine and she's achieved that through tennis alone.
It has taken a while and she's obv not a household name quite yet but that is arguably because she's yet to win Wimbledon.
I don't think anyone out there would even begin to try to take away from what she's achieved.
franklinbouvier is offline  
post #3 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 2007, 07:08 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 18,115
                     
Re: Is the seeming disrespect for Justine due to a lack of American future prospects?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HippityHop View Post
As I wrote elsewhere in a thread that was "moved", Justine is clearly the best women's player in the world right now.

She takes tennis very seriously and probably (I'm guessing here) has no life outside of tennis.

Even though she does all of the things that the pundits say that the Williams Sisters should be doing i.e. eating, drinking, and sleeping tennis, her accomplishments are still questioned.

Mary Carillo said that whoever won the Juju/Vee semi would have to be considered the number one player in the world.
Patrick McEnroe said that if she won the US Open that she would have to be considered the number one in the world.

HELLO????? Justine has been ranked number one for how many weeks?

And it seems that instead of celebrating the fact that Justine, who is a tennis machine a la Martina Navratilova, has won two majors in 2007, the big news is that she beat Serena everywhere except Miami and that she beat both Serena and Venus in this tournament.

Indeed there is so much made about her beating Serena and Venus in the same tournament that commentators make that seem more important than her winning the championship.

Is this because no matter what anyone accomplishes, the standard by which they will be forever judged is Venus and Serena?
Even despite Justine's accomplishments, I get the feeling that many people (not including the Williams and Henin fanbases) in the sport still believe that she's not the real deal. Kind of like Hingis was considered a bogus number one for a long time.

Almost every article mentions the Williams sisters who play very little yet are still able to step into the top ten and grab a major here and there with little or no preparation.

But it does show that no matter what the Willies do or don't do, they are still driving the story of women's tennis.
Frankly, I consider that disrepectful to Justine after all she's accomplished.

Again, maybe it's because everybody knows that after Vee and Rena leave that American women's tennis has practically no chance of a champion in the foreseeable future.
But it wasn't that long ago that they were considered bad for tennis.

Well, get over it. There was not an American in the US Open final this year. But hey, there was no Brit in the Wimby final, no Frenchwoman in the RG final and no Aussie in the AO final.

What the problem is?
I think that most of what you wrote is true, however, we must recognize that more and more people are becoming Justine fans and that she is finally getting some recognition after numerous weeks at #1, an Olympic Gold medal, 7 Slams(the last two without dropping a set) and a YEC championship. She has won 7/11 events entered and is by far the #1 in the ranking WITHOUT 1 single point from the Aussie Open which she missed due to a divorce. It's hard for people to keep ignoring her talent, her accomplishments and her blossoming as a player and a person.
treufreund is offline  
post #4 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 2007, 07:16 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 182
                     
Re: Is the seeming disrespect for Justine due to a lack of American future prospects?

I am a Justine fan but it is normal that she is compared to Serena or Venus to a lesser extent because she is the dominating force one coming after the williamses dominating era, just like the williamses were coming after Hingis, ect. So each time she beats them she add to the perception that she is ending the dominating williams period and is grounded firmly in her own.

You always measure the validity of your number one spot by challenging the previous one(s) who are still active. When Justine will clearly outnumbered Serena in terms of slams, if she adds the Wimbledon one, and keeps on beating her consitantly she will be the one PERCEIVED as the UNDOUBTEDLY number on dominant force who will be the reference to be beaten. Then her achievments would weight much more in that prospect cause she will be the one active player with the better CV and whose active players would want measure up to.
sportywoman is offline  
post #5 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 2007, 07:53 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,605
                     
Re: Is the seeming disrespect for Justine due to a lack of American future prospects?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportywoman View Post
I am a Justine fan but it is normal that she is compared to Serena or Venus to a lesser extent because she is the dominating force one coming after the williamses dominating era, just like the williamses were coming after Hingis, ect. So each time she beats them she add to the perception that she is ending the dominating williams period and is grounded firmly in her own.

You always measure the validity of your number one spot by challenging the previous one(s) who are still active. When Justine will clearly outnumbered Serena in terms of slams, if she adds the Wimbledon one, and keeps on beating her consitantly she will be the one PERCEIVED as the UNDOUBTEDLY number on dominant force who will be the reference to be beaten. Then her achievments would weight much more in that prospect cause she will be the one active player with the better CV and whose active players would want measure up to.
Interesting points. But as someone said elsewhere, Venus and/or Serena have not dominated since 2003. That's four years ago. And as I said, Venus and Serena are de facto part timers for several reasons. I'd think that the Russians would be the ones who she should be measured against.

But then again maybe it does say something about the talent of the WTA that Venus and Serena, who rarely play, are the yardstick by which all others are measured.
HippityHop is offline  
post #6 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 2007, 08:11 PM
Team WTAworld
Senior Member
 
-Ph51-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Migrating!
Posts: 10,779
                     
Re: Is the seeming disrespect for Justine due to a lack of American future prospects?

I don't think that the standard in Europe is the same as in the US.
Over here the sisters are not that important, and, at the French, Henin was never compared to them.

L'important, c'est la rose...
-Ph51- is offline  
post #7 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 2007, 08:16 PM
Senior Member
 
DemWilliamsGulls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 4,839
                     
Re: Is the seeming disrespect for Justine due to a lack of American future prospects?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HippityHop View Post
Interesting points. But as someone said elsewhere, Venus and/or Serena have not dominated since 2003. That's four years ago. And as I said, Venus and Serena are de facto part timers for several reasons. I'd think that the Russians would be the ones who she should be measured against.

But then again maybe it does say something about the talent of the WTA that Venus and Serena, who rarely play, are the yardstick by which all others are measured.
Beautiful post...

Venus and Serena ....Often imitated NEVER duplicated!!!!!!!
DemWilliamsGulls is offline  
post #8 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 2007, 08:19 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 26,297
                     
Re: Is the seeming disrespect for Justine due to a lack of American future prospects?

Many people and Williams fans still believe that Justine is not able to beat the Williamses when they are "at their best".
For them it is just not comprehensible how a girl that small could be competitive with Venus and Serena. It can't be happening.
That's why they constantly need to be proven wrong by Justine beating them.

And even now it has happened again, they still won't accept it.
GoDominique is offline  
post #9 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 2007, 08:20 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Wales
Posts: 24,349
                     
Re: Is the seeming disrespect for Justine due to a lack of American future prospects?

I think now we know, at this moment in time Justine is the undesputed world #1. She has been the most consistent performer for the past couple of years and now shes going above that.

I'm not a huge fan of Justine but i can see shes a cracking tennis player, one of the most talented players ever.

GOOD LUCK IN 2016 GB TENNIS GIRLS

Johanna Konta, Naomi Broady, Tara Moore, Heather Watson , Laura Robson

Eleanor Dean, Katy DunneKatie Boulter, Sam Murray

Katie Swan, Harriet Dart,
Monica_Rules is offline  
post #10 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 2007, 08:22 PM
Senior Member
 
jellybelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: WaldoLand
Posts: 555
                     
Re: Is the seeming disrespect for Justine due to a lack of American future prospects?

Honestly the WIlliamses are a phenomenon. There is no other word for it. Nothing like them has ever hit tennis before and nothing like that ever will hit tennis again. People should be more gracious towards them because it will be patently clear how much the sport needed them when they retire. People now who are reveling in their defeat by lesser players today will regret this in the future. Honestly everyone knows deep inside that they are the best, but they hope against hope that it is not true. That is why they make so much noise when a Williams reminds them of that fact, they are yelling to try and muffle their own deep instinct that the Williams are right.

Serena and Markus together forever
jellybelly is offline  
post #11 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 2007, 08:33 PM
Team WTAworld
Senior Member
 
-Ph51-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Migrating!
Posts: 10,779
                     
Re: Is the seeming disrespect for Justine due to a lack of American future prospects?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jellybelly View Post
Honestly the WIlliamses are a phenomenon. There is no other word for it. Nothing like them has ever hit tennis before and nothing like that ever will hit tennis again. People should be more gracious towards them because it will be patently clear how much the sport needed them when they retire. People now who are reveling in their defeat by lesser players today will regret this in the future. Honestly everyone knows deep inside that they are the best, but they hope against hope that it is not true. That is why they make so much noise when a Williams reminds them of that fact, they are yelling to try and muffle their own deep instinct that the Williams are right.
Like i said before...in the US.

L'important, c'est la rose...
-Ph51- is offline  
post #12 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 2007, 08:35 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,691
                     
Re: Is the seeming disrespect for Justine due to a lack of American future prospects?

I dont think williamses retiring will be a huge loss. they play 5 or 6 tournaments per year. only impact will be in USO where they fetch a lot of money. People have short memory, there are legends in every era and williams sisters have their respectable place in history but saying williamses are best of all or most important of all is delusion.
Apoorv is offline  
post #13 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 2007, 08:42 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,605
                     
Re: Is the seeming disrespect for Justine due to a lack of American future prospects?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoDominique View Post
Many people and Williams fans still believe that Justine is not able to beat the Williamses when they are "at their best".
For them it is just not comprehensible how a girl that small could be competitive with Venus and Serena. It can't be happening.
That's why they constantly need to be proven wrong by Justine beating them.

And even now it has happened again, they still won't accept it.
But Justine is smaller than a lot of girls (women) in the WTA. So is it really just a matter of size?

On another note, I think that Venus and Serena transcend tennis in a way that no other tennis player has or will. Perhaps Agassi comes close. But certainly not Sampras, Evert, Navratilova, or a whole host of others including Justine.
HippityHop is offline  
post #14 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 2007, 08:43 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 1,179
 
Re: Is the seeming disrespect for Justine due to a lack of American future prospects?

If Henin was attractive or American she would be praised. Let's be real...she's boyish looking, kind of of unattractive she's never garner as much attention as Anna or Maria. I think it's shallow but in this case because of Henin's past I don't care.
If Ana wins a one slam she will be more popular like Maria in America because she's beautiful (imo more beautiful than Maria). However I like certain players because of skill if there's no cheating involve...looks be d*mn.

Other than being a sex symbol they have be American and successful like the Williams sisters. Like Andy who's popular for no other reason but he's American. Heck even Blake who's never won a slam seems more popular.
Jasmin is offline  
post #15 of 61 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 2007, 08:49 PM
Senior Member
 
SunriseSunset's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 290
                     
Re: Is the seeming disrespect for Justine due to a lack of American future prospects?

I don't think it's about lack of future American players, just how good everyone thinks Serena and Venus are. They say they're crap/ not dedicated, yet still expect them to win everything and hold them up as the epitome for everyone else. I think it happens everywhere e.g. in the music world, ALL singers get compared to Beyonce no matter what they do. It seems to just be the way it is.

You're right that before they were "bad for tennis", but that's how hypocritical people can be. They love you one minute then hate you the next and go round in circles.

Serena and Venus get disrespected too. Their country is not behind them totally and only turned to the sisters when their other hopes had faded and they would prefer a Sharapova lookalike.

If Henin continues, then one day she may be used as a benchmark too.

I Nadal. Serena Williams. Venus Williams

Like: Haas. Tsonga. Kiefer. Bartoli. Mirza. Zheng. Bolleli. Safina. Mauresmo. Monfils.Jie.


Hate: Djokovic. Lubjicic. Sharapova. Murray. Dementieva. Soderling.
SunriseSunset is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome