Mary Carillo is a human being - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 55 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 2007, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
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Mary Carillo is a human being

Everybody take a deep breathe. Has Carillo said things I disagree with? Many. Are her coments racially motivated? Perhaps. I'm not in her head. But here's a sure thing. Serena Williams is vastly more gifted in every aspect of tennis than Mary Carillo. (Yes, I watched Carillo when she played.) Every single one of Serena's shots is better, not just more powerful, but more accurate. On top of that, Serera is bigger, faster and stronger. Further, Serena didn't grow up in the glare of expectation. Venus took the heat for her. And Serena was born into an family of very accomplished people who became WEALTHY accomplished people by the time Serena was 3 years old. Oh, and her parents turned out to be good tennis coaches. Arguably, Serena is one of the most advantaged players in tennis history. She's had virtually everything she could need to become one of the top players in the history of the sport, and surprise, surprise, she IS one of the top players in the history of the sport.

Is Mary Carillo truly supposed to be so superhuman she isn't jealous of that?
Is Mary Carillo truly supposed to be so superhuman that that jealously doesn't affect her views and statements on Serena?

I'm taking the Biblical injunction, and leaving the stone throwing to those without sin.

as to weather or not Serena has lived up to her potential, let's do a comparison. Serena's 26 birthday is coming up. (Sep, 9 '81) She has 8 Gs singles titles so far. Let's look at a couple of other players who's birthdays fall after the slams are completed, and see how many slams they had won before their 26th birthday.

Navratilova - 5
Evert - 11
BJK - 6

At 8 GS singles titles won by age 26 (maybe 9, she could win the US Open this year), Serena doesn't seem to be underachieving, compared to historical greats. For her age, she's one of the top five players in the history of the sport. (Not that that means very much. When she was 17, Martina Hingis was one of the top five players in the history of the sport, for her age.) But it's hard to look at Serena's actual record in historical context and say she's underachieved. Which is why I think Mary Carillo's opinion of Serena is colored by that most common of all human emotions, jealousy. And if everyone who ever had an opinion affected by jeaousy was lined up and shot, the world would be a damn lonely place.

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post #2 of 55 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 2007, 04:33 PM
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Re: Mary Carillo is a human being

OMG what a BOMBSHEll!!!

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post #3 of 55 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 2007, 04:37 PM
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Re: Mary Carillo is a human being

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Originally Posted by Volcana View Post
Everybody take a deep breathe. Has Carillo said things I disagree with? Many. Are her coments racially motivated? Perhaps. I'm not in her head. But here's a sure thing. Serena Williams is vastly more gifted in every aspect of tennis than Mary Carillo. (Yes, I watched Carillo when she played.) Every single one of Serena's shots is better, not just more powerful, but more accurate. On top of that, Serera is bigger, faster and stronger. Further, Serena didn't grow up in the glare of expectation. Venus took the heat for her. And Serena was born into an family of very accomplished people who became WEALTHY accomplished people by the time Serena was 3 years old. Oh, and her parents turned out to be good tennis coaches. Arguably, Serena is one of the most advantaged players in tennis history. She's had virtually everything she could need to become one of the top players in the history of the sport, and surprise, surprise, she IS one of the top players in the history of the sport.

Is Mary Carillo truly supposed to be so superhuman she isn't jealous of that?
Is Mary Carillo truly supposed to be so superhuman that that jealously doesn't affect her views and statements on Serena?

I'm taking the Biblical injunction, and leaving the stone throwing to those without sin.

as to weather or not Serena has lived up to her potential, let's do a comparison. Serena's 26 birthday is coming up. (Sep, 9 '81) She has 8 Gs singles titles so far. Let's look at a couple of other players who's birthdays fall after the slams are completed, and see how many slams they had won before their 26th birthday.

Navratilova - 5
Evert - 11
BJK - 6

At 8 GS singles titles won by age 26 (maybe 9, she could win the US Open this year), Serena doesn't seem to be underachieving, compared to historical greats. For her age, she's one of the top five players in the history of the sport. (Not that that means very much. When she was 17, Martina Hingis was one of the top five players in the history of the sport, for her age.) But it's hard to look at Serena's actual record in historical context and say she's underachieved. Which is why I think Mary Carillo's opinion of Serena is colored by that most common of all human emotions, jealousy. And if everyone who ever had an opinion affected by jeaousy was lined up and shot, the world would be a damn lonely place.



I'll add this : Anything anyone says or does is about them, your reaction to their words or actions is about YOU.

"Hatred is the coward's revenge for being intimidated" - George Bernard Shaw




"And for the best of the teen-agers who followed her, and who occasionally referred to her as over the hill, Graf had a ready answer: against top-ranked Martina Hingis, Graf wound up 7-2. Graf's stirring 4-6, 7-5, 6-2 throttling of Hingis at the French Open final this June was perhaps the most emphatic parting shot the game has ever seen. "


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post #4 of 55 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 2007, 05:07 PM
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Re: Mary Carillo is a human being

Thank you for putting it all in perspective b/c it did become tiring to see the Carrillo topics.
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post #5 of 55 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 2007, 05:57 PM
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Re: Mary Carillo is a human being

Of course. We all know Mary Carillo is a MAN.

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post #6 of 55 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 2007, 06:02 PM
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Re: Mary Carillo is a human being

Volcano great post. I do disagree one one thing. I don't think she's so much as jealous of Serena. She is just a racist and bitter twat. She's the type of women who can't handle her self when she sees a gifted and strong black women who she preceives as a threat.

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post #7 of 55 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 2007, 06:06 PM
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Re: Mary Carillo is a human being

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Volcano great post. I do disagree one one thing. I don't think she's so much as jealous of Serena. She is just a racist and bitter twat. She's the type of women who can't handle her self when she sees a gifted and strong black women who she preceives as a threat.
That's harsh. Carrillo is probably encouraged to be controversial to elicit the kinds of opinions you see about her on the board. In fairness she may not mean a word of it but she gets paid to play Devil's Advocate.
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post #8 of 55 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 2007, 06:07 PM
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Re: Mary Carillo is a human being

And as far as MC being a human being. Well so is Serena and her family and so are her tennis fans. Sop I say FUCK THAT RACIST COW AND THAT WHITE HORSE THAT SHE CONTINUES TO RIDE IN ON!

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post #9 of 55 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 2007, 06:10 PM
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Re: Mary Carillo is a human being

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Of course. We all know Mary Carillo is a MAN.

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post #10 of 55 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 2007, 06:15 PM
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Re: Mary Carillo is a human being

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That's harsh. Carrillo is probably encouraged to be controversial to elicit the kinds of opinions you see about her on the board. In fairness she may not mean a word of it but she gets paid to play Devil's Advocate.

You stated the word "PROBABLY". The reality is she has for years stated words and actions that are against VENUS AND SERENA WILLIAMS.

If you truley want to see HARSH then go and read some of her past quotes and watch some old and new tennis matches without the MUTE button. I don't know who you're trying to pursuade but Mary's own actions speak for themself. Her actions don't contain a PROBABLY either. They are FACTS! Stop trying to tell me to avoid the facts. I hope that racist cow gets FIRED!

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post #11 of 55 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 2007, 06:27 PM
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Re: Mary Carillo is a human being

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You stated the word "PROBABLY". The reality is she has for years stated words and actions that are against VENUS AND SERENA WILLIAMS.

If you truley want to see HARSH then go and read some of her past quotes and watch some old and new tennis matches without the MUTE button. I don't know who you're trying to pursuade but Mary's own actions speak for themself. Her actions don't contain a PROBABLY either. They are FACTS! Stop trying to tell me to avoid the facts. I hope that racist cow gets FIRED!
Did you notice that Carrillo made this comment just before the start of the US Open? Is it a coincidence that the controversy comes just as we are going to see her on TV commentating on matches? I think not. I'm not trying to debunk how you feel about Carrillo. I'm just pointing out how calculating her actions were.
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post #12 of 55 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 2007, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Mary Carillo is a human being

Dawn Marie - Your feelings, and your certainty, are duly noted. However, how would you prove, even to me, (and you know I am a devoted Venus fan) that Mary Carillo's comments are motivated by racial bias? I've certainly seen enough of her past commentary on Venus and Serena, some of which was stronger than this. However, I don't regard that as proof. Does she seem to not like them? Sure. But you're also claiming to know WHY. How do you prove that? Without proof, it becomes an accusation you can throw at anybody, and thus meaningless. I can say 'Irina Spirlea is a racist cow' and back it up with her words about Venus. But that doesn't prove the comments were racially motivated.

You've read my posts for a long time, so you've seen me jump on people over racism before. But in this case, you seem to be equating dislike with bigotry, and often that just isn't the case. Often it is. Further, you're certain the issue is bigotry, not jealousy. What exactly is it that makes you so sure. And I've not only read an awful lot of Mary Carillo on the Williams sisters, but I've seen her work in other venues as well. Joseph Pulitzer she's not, but her past work, en masse does not show an obvious degree of racial bias either. SO I must ask for specific examples, and ask you to me what proves racial bias.

That is, not things that are simply consistent with racial bias, but rather things that really can't be interpreted any other way.

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post #13 of 55 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 2007, 07:44 PM
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Re: Mary Carillo is a human being

I think most of us have the same attitude about Carillo that we do about Wertheim, Bodo et al--they're idiots most of the time.

When they criticize one of my favorites, they are worse than idiots.

When they criticize players you like, they are absolute geniuses who are unusually insightful.

When they compliment my favorite players, they are simply stated obvious facts.

Frankly, I think some of us have a little of that same envy bug--how many of us would jump at the chance to be paid to watch and cover the sport we love? But we can't. So we hate on those who can.

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post #14 of 55 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 2007, 08:35 PM
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Re: Mary Carillo is a human being

I'd say it's quite obvious that Serena has underachieved. Venus too.

Volcana's facts don't really tell me anything, because Chris Evert, I would have thought, had maximised her potential aged 26, and Martina Navratilova was also an underachiever by that age, relative to her talents.

Far from being racist, to say that 8 slams and a non-calendar grandslam is an underachievement is actually a backhanded compliment to Serena, and likewise with Venus.

We all know that, at their best, they are still far, far above the rest of the competition.
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post #15 of 55 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 2007, 08:40 PM
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Re: Mary Carillo is a human being

^
Speak for yourself, Max. I hate because I can. The mayor isn't gonna give me the key to the city, it isn't going to be engraved on my tombstone nor is Anna Kournikova gonna come over to my apt. and fuck my brains out simply because I can be an objective commentator on a well laid out messageboard. Don't y'all get me wrong here: being civil has its rewards but if I choose to hate whether it be on a burned out-cum-vapid TV anal(c)yst like MC then let me do it. I'm accountable for me, warts and all.

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