A Question on Ranking Points. - TennisForum.com

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 2002, 01:14 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 956
                     
A Question on Ranking Points.

I read somewhere that Venus got close to 1100 points for winning Wimby in 2000. The fact that she defeated the #1, #2 and #4 helped in that regard. I believed, if I'm not mistaken that Graf was the last player to defeat #1, #2 AND #3 in a slam.

So here is the question;

What is the maximum number of points that a player could get for winning a slam? And the second part of that question is; who has the record for the most points for a single tournament (obviously, a slam).

I know to win a slam, one must win 7 matches, hence if one were to beat the players ranked 1-7, then that would yield the highest number of quality points. However, is it mathematically possible based on the randomness of the draw for a player to even get that opportunity? And therein lies the crux of the question.

Thoughts anyone?
calabar is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 2002, 01:24 PM
Raj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 347
                     
Let me answer part of your question.
Quite obviously you cannot beat players ranked 1-7, due to seeding and the draw. you cannot have players ranked from 1-7 in the same half of the draw so it is impossible (0%) to beat ALL the players ranked 1-7!
SO it is impossible for a player to get that opportunity, even if you are unseeded.
Raj is offline  
post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 2002, 05:19 PM
Plainclothes Division
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: South Park, CO
Posts: 6,323
                     
Well, for the sake of this experiment, we'll assume a normalized draw. (There have been cases in the past where the #3 seed was the #2 player in the rankings when the tournament was held, but we'll assume that isn't so.) So we have seeds 1-5 matching their rankings, players seeded 6-10 ranked somewhere from 6-10, even if it doesn't match exactly, ditto 11-16, 17-25, 26-32.

Now we'll work backwards to make things easier to keep track of. This will not likely be the order in which such players would be beaten in real life, were this to occur.

In the final, you could beat #1.
Semis- #2
Quarters- #3
r16- #5
r32- #9
r64- #17
1st round- #33

Quality points would be
1- 200
2- 150
3- 132
5- 100
9- 86
17- 46
33- 30

A maximum of 744 quality points. Add that to the 650 round points, and the maximum potential points under normal conditions is 1394.
Brian Stewart is offline  
post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 2002, 05:27 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 956
                     
Brian, Thanks for the input. Of course under your scenario, the winner in this is bound to lose points the following year since it would be extremely unlikely that they would get the same seeds AND BEAT THEM the following year.

Regarding the second part of the question, do you or anyone else knows what the highest points ever accumulated in a slam. Someone on another board said Venus' win at wimby in 2000 may have been a record. I just can't confirm this.

Calabar

No One Can Make You Feel Inferior Without Your Consent

- Eleanor Roosevelt


Until the philosophy which holds one race
Superior and another inferior
Is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned
Everywhere is war, me say war...

- Bob Marley/Haile Selassie
calabar is offline  
post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 2002, 05:45 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 399
                     
Don't know for sure but I'd think Capriati win AO '01 and Serena win at USO '99 may have yielded more points than Venus' wimbly.
Later rounds are where the quality points really come into play
I believe Capriat beat seeds 4,2,1 (qtrs through final)
Venus beat seeds 1,(6 or 7),2
Serena beat seeds 4,2, 1 (not sure that monica was 4th seed)
BrianII is offline  
post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 2002, 05:51 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 136
 
A couple of additional questions

1. do you get the points for beating the SEED of the player or the RANK of the player.

2. If its the rank of the player, do you get the ponts based on their rank at the time of the draw or thier current rank. For instance, Serena enters Wimby ranked #2 and makes it to the final ranked#1(unofficially I guess) where she gets beaten by an unseeded upstart. does upstart get quality points for beating a #1 or #2
midora is offline  
post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 2002, 06:02 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 956
                     
Midora, you get points for beating a player based on their RANK at the time the SEEDING was done. Hope this helps. Serena's #1 ranking did not become official until Monday (Midnight Sunday). Had she been beaten by Venus in the final, Venus would NOT have been credited with the quality point for beating the then #1 ranked player.

No One Can Make You Feel Inferior Without Your Consent

- Eleanor Roosevelt


Until the philosophy which holds one race
Superior and another inferior
Is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned
Everywhere is war, me say war...

- Bob Marley/Haile Selassie
calabar is offline  
post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 2002, 06:06 PM
Plainclothes Division
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: South Park, CO
Posts: 6,323
                     
The quality points are based on a player's ranking when main draw play in the tournament begins. (In the few tourneys that start main draw play on a Sunday, the rankings are from that Monday.)

If someone had beaten Serena, they would have gotten points for beating #2, because Serena didn't officially become #1 until after Wimbledon ended.
Brian Stewart is offline  
post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 2002, 06:11 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 136
 
Thanks everyone . Another simple question. please bare wth me as I am just getting to understand this ranking thing.

am i right to assume that you get quality points for beating a player ranked below you? Venus gets points for beating Cappy?
midora is offline  
post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 2002, 11:28 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Belgium
Posts: 290
                     
You always get quality points, it doesn't matter if the player you beat is ranked below or above you, as long as that player is inside top ... 500 or so? I don't exactly know about that, but you can check this and other ranking-stuff at www.eatel.net/~mblue/tenindex.htm and than go to 'Ranking tables 2002' if it's working, coz currently the ranking-table-part seems to be down.
Verve is offline  
post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 2002, 11:51 PM
Raj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 347
                     
SERENA will have loads of points to defend next year.
ESPECIALLY quality points and it will be impossible for her to earn more points in some events as she will not be able to defeat the number of player!
SERENA beat the number seed/rank in both the french open wimbledon!
In the past 12 months SERENA has beat number1 ranked players about 6 times, HINGIS a couple of times, CAPRIATI a few times and VENUS once.
THERE is of course no way SERENA can defend these wins! So her points from tournaments if she wins by beating the same players will drop! and whoever beats her will get a high number of quality points.
It will be interesting to see how SERENA holds the number 1 spot.
It must be hard getting to number 1, but staying there is another story!
Raj is offline  
post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 9th, 2002, 01:34 AM
Bright Like Neon Love
 
Richie77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Twilight World
Posts: 13,666
                     
You get quality points for beating a player in the Top 500. Those points are doubled in the Grand Slams.

Here is the run down:

No. 1: Regular Tournament - 100, Grand Slam - 200
No. 2: Regular - 75, GS - 150
No. 3: Regular - 66, GS - 132
No. 4: Regular - 55, GS - 110
No. 5: Regular - 50, GS - 100
Nos. 6-10: Regular - 43, GS - 86
Nos. 11-16: Regular - 35, GS - 70
Nos. 17-25: Regular - 23, GS - 46
Nos. 26-35: Regular - 15, GS - 30
Nos. 36-50: Regular - 10, GS - 20
Nos. 51-75: Regular - 8, GS - 16
Nos. 76-120: Regular - 4, GS - 8
Nos. 121-250: Regular - 2, GS - 4
Nos. 251-500: Regular - 1, GS -2

Richie77 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome