Will power tennis have a positive or negative affect on the game in the long run? - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old Jun 10th, 2002, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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Will power tennis have a positive or negative affect on the game in the long run?

Consider the fact that Venus, Serena, Jennifer, Monica, and Lindsay can simply blow a player off the court and can easily dominate tennis on any surface, I think women's tennis will become more boring than men's tennis. There are only a hand-full of players who are true contenders to win big tournaments and surprises like Fernandez and Suarez are rare. Players like Martina, who use strategy to win, are an extinct species on the tour and have yet to find an answer to the big babes. In my mind, Serena is currently unbeatable - she hits the ball too hard for most of the players even to return a decent shot into play. It is only a matter of time until the top 20 become all power-players. There are fewer and fewer long rallies and the ratio between winners and unforced errors for players is increasing. On the men's side, you at least have a blend of the Hewitts and Ferreros with the Safins and Roddicks (i can't believe i just praised andy, that's a first). The men's game has become much more unpredictable and will soon become more popular than the women's game.

ugh, why do they all suck????????
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old Jun 10th, 2002, 12:58 PM
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I'm all for power...but precision & power mean a lot more than hitting as hard as you can blindly and hoping for the shot to drop it.
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old Jun 10th, 2002, 01:13 PM
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croat123 - There were a LOT of long rallies in the Serena-Jenn semi. And a lot of varieties of shots. In fact, Serena power game was LOSING to Jenn. Serena had to go to variations in speed, using slices and drop shots, and hitting shorter angles.

The players who rely on nothing but hitting hard are ranked BEHIND the players who use power PLUS variety. And behind THEM are players with no power.

This is NORMAL. Given the same level of skill, the player with superior athletic ability will triumph. And a 7 year old with Martina Hingis's skills wil still lose to any WTA player. They simply aren't fast enough or strong enough.

'Power tennis' is already leading to 'power tennis plus'. In another ten years, you'll have to have Serena's serve, Martina's hands, Justine's variety, Lindsay's power and Venus's speed to be #1.

This is GOOD.

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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old Jun 10th, 2002, 02:09 PM
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Thumbs down Will power tennis have a positive or negative affect on the game in the long run?

The two powergals #1 and # 2 Venus and Serena combined for 101 unforced errors, 14 double faults, 13 service breaks in their final match at RG. I'm trying to be objective here but to me those stats do not produce any pleasure watching such a "sloppy" display!! If this is where tennis is heading it will be a very negative ride!! This is BAD!!!

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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old Jun 10th, 2002, 02:14 PM
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The men hit with more power than the women generally, and they have some exciting matches. I personally find power tennis more exciting to watch, as opposed to players standing behind the baseline moonballing, or rallying until one player makes an error. When power players make errors its because they are going for winners. Also womens tennis hasnt yet reached a point where there are no rallies, because obviously there are stil a lot of rallies, so thats why i think power tennis is exciting to watch.
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old Jun 10th, 2002, 02:14 PM
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This is what they were saying about the mens game a few years back - all BIG serves and two points and it was done, and how boring it was.
but look - Hewitt is the #1 player in the world and he's not a power player. The mens game is not dominated by power tennis. It has become a PART of the game, but so has improved precision, better shotmaking, and better returns of serve, that can negate some of the big servers.

I agree barmaid that the RG final was sloppy and not a thing of beauty. But I do think that the game has already moved to power, but will incorporate greater and greater amounts of precision in the years to come.
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old Jun 10th, 2002, 03:57 PM
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Re: Will power tennis have a positive or negative affect on the game in the long run?

Quote:
Originally posted by barmaid
The two powergals #1 and # 2 Venus and Serena combined for 101 unforced errors, 14 double faults, 13 service breaks in their final match at RG. I'm trying to be objective here but to me those stats do not produce any pleasure watching such a "sloppy" display!! If this is where tennis is heading it will be a very negative ride!! This is BAD!!!

barmaid
Yeah, but remember that these two are sisters. Factor in all the intangibles that come with that dynamic (nerves, love, respect etc) and things are bound to be tense on the court. I have enjoyed watching Serena and Jennifer (or Serena and Lindsay) play each other. It is somewhat dismissive to say that these "power" players don't use strategy or finesse, because if the spectator is being fair then he/she would acknowledge that these "power" players have displayed strategy, smarts (Venus/Justine at Amelia Island) and finesse (Serena's amazing angles). If you saw the Serena/Jennifer semi at RG (especially the third set) then you would see that Serena is a good strategist as well. I think there is a mixture in their games right now. "Power Plus," as put by Volcano.
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old Jun 10th, 2002, 06:00 PM
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As has been noted in about 50 threads in the last two weeks, ALL errors were counted as 'unforced' inthis tournament. So the two fastest players on the tour had 101 shots between them that they ccould touch, but couldn't return.

Consider that the tournament average for winning players was 44 unforced errors a match. A LOT of matches had over a hundred UEs. Especially in the later rounds when the opponents were better.

Suarez v Fernandez - 129 UEs between them. (Power players?)

Capriati v Dokic - 114 UEs

Seles v Hanutuchova - 93 UEs

Until they played each other, Venus and Serena were putting up some of the LOWEST unforced error totals in the tournaments. The stats are still up on the RG website. See for yourself.

Why more errors in the final?
The opponent in the finals was better. Being sisters may have been secondary to that.

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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old Jun 10th, 2002, 07:05 PM
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It has been postive since Seles andf Graf came onto the scene, of course it will have a positive effect the attendence and revenue prove this every day. The young kids are hitting the ball hard.

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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old Jun 10th, 2002, 07:12 PM
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Suarez vs Fernandez--129 UE's from "finess"players --LOL @ this topic.

"They'll never win a grandslam title" LOL!
"They'll never be ranked #1" LOL!
"They'll never win a title on clay" LOL!
"All they do is hit hard" LOL!
"Venus will never win another Tier I title" LOL!
"Venus will never beat another top-5 player" LOL!
"Venus will never win another grand slam title" LOL!
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old Jun 10th, 2002, 07:17 PM
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I see Volcana and Amanda have answered this topic beautifully.
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old Jun 10th, 2002, 07:26 PM
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Talking

Excellent replies from Volcana and Amanda.
You must have read my mind.
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old Jun 10th, 2002, 08:42 PM
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Suarez and Fernandez played much longer rallies though before the errors, also three sets were played. V+S would have had 152 errors if they had kept it up at the same rate in a third set. Capriati-Dokic was ugly tennis too IMO especially from Dokic who, yes, for a stretch of games was brilliant but continuing to hit as hard as possible even after making error after error in the third set. Many of Venus and Serena's error were not just inches out, however, many of their misses were way off or terrible double faults and total shanked volleys. Sorry but that's how I see it.
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old Jun 10th, 2002, 09:01 PM
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Okay, Venus in the final had 5 winners to 59 UE's!!!!! but I think in reality probably it was something like 5 winners to 30 UE's since they count everything as a UE. Serena had a 9:56 ratio but we could say maybe it was more like 9:25 or so. Still not good numbers at all. Chock it up to nerves but also POWER EXTREME vs POWER EXTREME means absolute urgency to whack the hell out of the ball and also contributes to nerves since neither girl really knows which shot selection to use since they know how hard it is to dominate the point. It's all psychological though since the more consistent player would wind up winning. Serena pulled back enough to "dominate" in consistency. There really was not much finesse at all used so let's not pretend like the "sisters sledgehammer" truly use a lot of finesse in the later rounds. Yes, Serena, does a bit but not all that much and she missed quite a few dropshots in this tourney and has an awkward slice and lob at times. When Serena resorts to finesse it sometimes looks brilliant but frequently looks awkward. They are not touch players but at least they do try it occasionally. Mostly they do touch shots when they are quite easy to execute like drop volley of sitting passing shots when the opponent is on the baseline.

Al costa had 43 winners;48 errors but most likely without the error inflation it was probably about 43:24 or so which are fabulous numbers. ALBERT hits the ball pretty heavy but not necessarily with a ton of pace. He is a player who can use touch shots and RELY ON THEM EVEN WHEN THEY ARE NOT OBVIOUS. He won 9 out of 13 points when hitting dropshots and many of those were due to great execution, surprise and his anticipation of what Ferrero would do with the shot. Despite Ferrero's shaky game AL kept his level up which actually is difficult because often when your opponent is streaky it is easy to have a mental letdown and lose your rhythm. He pulled out off a lot of difficult shots with touch volleys and forehands place on the lines over and over in VERY LONG RALLIES and yet still made probably an average of only about 6 true unforced errors per set. That's the kind of tennis I want to see. And he deserved his trophy (not that Serena did not cuz she was CLEARLY the best)
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old Jun 10th, 2002, 09:28 PM
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Match Summary

Ferrero (ESP) Safin (RUS)

1st Serve % 50 of 94 = 53 % 51 of 92 = 55 %

Aces 2 2

Double Faults 5 1

Unforced Errors 49 79

Match Summary

Costa (ESP) Kuerten (BRA)

1st Serve % 51 of 82 = 62 % 69 of 118 = 58 %

Aces 7 8

Double Faults 2 4

Unforced Errors 53 67


Match Summary

Corretja (ESP) Zabaleta (ARG)

1st Serve % 53 of 98 = 54 % 44 of 93 = 47 %

Aces 4 3

Double Faults 3 5

Unforced Errors 49 74



Match Summary

Pavel (ROM) Corretja (ESP)

1st Serve % 88 of 141 = 62 % 78 of 134 = 58 %

Aces 2 5

Double Faults 3 2

Unforced Errors 91 89


Yawn! Once again dozens and dozens of unforced errors, I dont hear anyone mouthing off about that. I think the simple solution is for you all who complain about UE and power tennis is to simply not watch it. You know, how some jen cap fans told the "haters" to not watch jennifer? Do the same please then the unforced errors will not bother you. In fact why not go back and watch old tapes of chris Evert and live in "bliss".
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