If Wimbledon seeded according to ONLY grass court results ... - TennisForum.com

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post #1 of 40 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2006, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
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If Wimbledon seeded according to ONLY grass court results ...

in other words, ranking counts for nothing, how would they seed the women at the tournament. Obviously, Sharapova would be seeded ahead of Petrova, for example. The idea is to seed according to who's likeliest to win, with grass court results being the best predictor.

Well, don't ignore ranking ... but grass results should be 90%, and ranking only 10%.

Ignore ranking. It gets in the way of the discussion.

01 Venus - Five out of the last six finals, defending champ
02 Sharapova - 2004 champ. 2004, 2005 Birmingham. Could have been #1, but losing to Jackson at Birmingham indicate slippage.
03 Mauresmo - Made semi the two years before.

Higher than their ranking, based on style, or history

xx Vaidisova
xx Hingis
xx Mirza
xx Peng
xx Zvonareva
xx Molik
xx Safina
xx Jackson

Note: That doesn't mean I'd seed them ....

Lower than their ranking, based on style, or history

xx Clijsters - Good grass court player, but her Wimbledon results ...
xx Henin-Hardenne - Last three Wimbledons, 1r, DNP, SF. what can you do?

Proposed Seeding.....Current Ranking................
.................................................. ..
01 Venus ........... 01 MAURESMO, AMELIE FRA
02 Sharapova ....... 02 CLIJSTERS, KIM BEL
.................... 03 HENIN-HARDENNE, JUSTINE BEL
.................... 04 SHARAPOVA, MARIA RUS
.................... 05 PETROVA, NADIA RUS
.................... 06 DAVENPORT, LINDSAY USA
.................... 07 KUZNETSOVA, SVETLANA RUS
.................... 08 DEMENTIEVA, ELENA RUS
.................... 09 PIERCE, MARY FRA
.................... 10 SCHNYDER, PATTY SUI
.................... 11 MYSKINA, ANASTASIA RUS
.................... 12 WILLIAMS, VENUS USA
.................... 13 VAIDISOVA, NICOLE CZE
.................... 14 SCHIAVONE, FRANCESCA ITA
.................... 15 HINGIS, MARTINA SUI
.................... 16 GROENEFELD, ANNA-LENA GER
.................... 17 SAFINA, DINARA RUS
.................... 18 HANTUCHOVA, DANIELA SVK
.................... 19 PENNETTA, FLAVIA ITA
.................... 20 KIRILENKO, MARIA RUS
.................... 21 SUGIYAMA, AI JPN
.................... 22 IVANOVIC, ANA SCG
.................... 23 PEER, SHAHAR ISR
.................... 24 SREBOTNIK, KATARINA SLO
.................... 25 DECHY, NATHALIE FRA
.................... 26 MEDINA GARRIGUES, ANABEL ESP
.................... 27 BARTOLI, MARION FRA
.................... 28 LIKHOVTSEVA, ELENA RUS
.................... 29 JANKOVIC, JELENA SCG
.................... 30 LI, NA CHN
.................... 31 ARVIDSSON, SOFIA SWE
.................... 32 GOLOVIN, TATIANA FRA
.................... 33 CHAKVETADZE, ANNA RUS

.................... 38 MIRZA, SANIA IND
.................... 41 PENG, SHUAI CHN
.................... 47 ZVONAREVA, VERA RUS
.................... xx Molik



I will be modifying this initial post, as people's various rationals get posted.

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Last edited by Volcana; Jun 20th, 2006 at 02:10 PM.
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post #2 of 40 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2006, 01:11 PM
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Patty out of top 10 even out of top 16

Venus higher then now

ALG down

Sofia and Likho a little high but this don't matter
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post #3 of 40 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2006, 01:37 PM
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Patty is very bad on grass?

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post #4 of 40 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2006, 01:50 PM
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If Wimbledon did a mixed seeding (grass accumen and ranking) like the men....

TOP 16 SEEDS
1. Amelie Mauresmo
2. Maria Sharapova
3. Kim Clijsters
4. Justine Henin-Hardenne
5. Venus Williams (I would say top 4, but it seems too far for them to bump her)
6. Svetlana Kuznetsova
7. Martina Hingis
8. Nadia Petrova
9. Elena Dementieva
10. Patty Schnyder
11. Anastasia Myskina
12. Nicole Vaidisova
13. Francesca Schiavone
14. Anna-Lena Groenefeld
15. Dinara Safina
16. Daniela Hantuchova

The only changes from the actual rankings would be Sharapova @ #2 instead of #4 (especially considering she's 8 points out of 3rd place), Venus @ #5 instead of #10 (more Wimbledon titles than EVERY WOMAN PLAYING SINGLES COMBINED), Svetlana @ #6 (although because of Lindsay's w/d, she would be #6 anyway, (I put her above Petrova because she has a better record and consistently makes the 2nd week) and Martina @ #7 instead of #13 (she's won once and been to the 2nd week a couple of other times).

That being said, I don't think they'll do it, sadly. They are making a statement that men are different (read: better, more valuable) than women. So they give men more money and men better seedings based on their grass abilities (considering it's such a short season), but NAW, women are just there too look pretty and hold up dishes when it's all over.

Career Grand Slam in your 20s? Been there done that. Career golden slam your 30s?
There's only 1.
Serena.
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post #5 of 40 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2006, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana

01 Venus - Five out of the last six finals, defending champ
02 Sharapova - 2004 champ. 2004, 2005 Birmingham. Could have been #1, but losing to Jackson at Birmingham indicate slippage.
03 Mauresmo - Didn't play last year, but made semi the two years before.

Momo lost in SF to Lindsay 76(5) 67(4) 46 last year

She have not played in 2003
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post #6 of 40 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2006, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrserenawilliams
If Wimbledon did a mixed seeding (grass accumen and ranking) like the men....

TOP 16 SEEDS
1. Amelie Mauresmo
2. Maria Sharapova
3. Kim Clijsters
4. Justine Henin-Hardenne
5. Venus Williams (I would say top 4, but it seems too far for them to bump her)
6. Svetlana Kuznetsova
7. Martina Hingis
8. Nadia Petrova
9. Elena Dementieva
10. Patty Schnyder
11. Anastasia Myskina
12. Nicole Vaidisova
13. Francesca Schiavone
14. Anna-Lena Groenefeld
15. Dinara Safina
16. Daniela Hantuchova

The only changes from the actual rankings would be Sharapova @ #2 instead of #4 (especially considering she's 8 points out of 3rd place), Venus @ #5 instead of #10 (more Wimbledon titles than EVERY WOMAN PLAYING SINGLES COMBINED), Svetlana @ #6 (although because of Lindsay's w/d, she would be #6 anyway, (I put her above Petrova because she has a better record and consistently makes the 2nd week) and Martina @ #7 instead of #13 (she's won once and been to the 2nd week a couple of other times).

That being said, I don't think they'll do it, sadly. They are making a statement that men are different (read: better, more valuable) than women. So they give men more money and men better seedings based on their grass abilities (considering it's such a short season), but NAW, women are just there too look pretty and hold up dishes when it's all over.
There is no practical difference between seeds 5-8. I think if they were to bump Venus, they would only bump her up to 8, it would have the same effect as bumping her to 5 without ruffling as many feathers.

SF
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post #7 of 40 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2006, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana
in other words, ranking counts for nothing, how would they seed the women at the tournament. Obviously, Sharapova would be seeded ahead of Petrova, for example. The idea is to seed according to who's likeliest to win, with grass court results being the best predictor.

Well, don't ignore ranking ...

01 Venus - Five out of the last six finals, defending champ
02 Sharapova - 2004 champ. 2004, 2005 Birmingham. Could have been #1, but losing to Jackson at Birmingham indicate slippage.
03 Mauresmo - Didn't play last year, but made semi the two years before.

Higher than their ranking, based on style, or history

xx Vaidisova
xx Hingis
xx Mirza
xx Peng
xx Zvonareva
xx Molik
xx Safina
xx Jackson

Note: That doesn't mean I'd seed them ....

Lower than their ranking, based on style, or history

xx Clijsters - Good grass court player, but her Wimbledon results ...
xx Henin-Hardenne - Last three Wimbledons, DNP, 1r, DNP. what can you do?

Proposed Seeding.....Current Ranking................
.................................................. ..
01 Venus ........... 01 MAURESMO, AMELIE FRA
02 Sharapova ....... 02 CLIJSTERS, KIM BEL
.................... 03 HENIN-HARDENNE, JUSTINE BEL
.................... 04 SHARAPOVA, MARIA RUS
.................... 05 PETROVA, NADIA RUS
.................... 06 DAVENPORT, LINDSAY USA
.................... 07 KUZNETSOVA, SVETLANA RUS
.................... 08 DEMENTIEVA, ELENA RUS
.................... 09 PIERCE, MARY FRA
.................... 10 SCHNYDER, PATTY SUI
.................... 11 MYSKINA, ANASTASIA RUS
.................... 12 WILLIAMS, VENUS USA
.................... 13 VAIDISOVA, NICOLE CZE
.................... 14 SCHIAVONE, FRANCESCA ITA
.................... 15 HINGIS, MARTINA SUI
.................... 16 GROENEFELD, ANNA-LENA GER
.................... 17 SAFINA, DINARA RUS
.................... 18 HANTUCHOVA, DANIELA SVK
.................... 19 PENNETTA, FLAVIA ITA
.................... 20 KIRILENKO, MARIA RUS
.................... 21 SUGIYAMA, AI JPN
.................... 22 IVANOVIC, ANA SCG
.................... 23 PEER, SHAHAR ISR
.................... 24 SREBOTNIK, KATARINA SLO
.................... 25 DECHY, NATHALIE FRA
.................... 26 MEDINA GARRIGUES, ANABEL ESP
.................... 27 BARTOLI, MARION FRA
.................... 28 LIKHOVTSEVA, ELENA RUS
.................... 29 JANKOVIC, JELENA SCG
.................... 30 LI, NA CHN
.................... 31 ARVIDSSON, SOFIA SWE
.................... 32 GOLOVIN, TATIANA FRA
.................... 33 CHAKVETADZE, ANNA RUS

.................... 38 MIRZA, SANIA IND
.................... 41 PENG, SHUAI CHN
.................... 47 ZVONAREVA, VERA RUS
.................... xx Molik



I will be modifying this initial post, as people's various rationals get posted.
I don't think Venus would EVER be #1 this year. Maybe if she was in the top 6, I could see it, but even though she's the best grass player this side of Steffi Graf (and Serena), they wouldn't bump her up THAT much IMHO.

Career Grand Slam in your 20s? Been there done that. Career golden slam your 30s?
There's only 1.
Serena.
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post #8 of 40 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2006, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrserenawilliams
That being said, I don't think they'll do it
No chance on God's Green Earth. But I thought it might be fun to solicit other people's 'why's'.

BTW, no way would I give the #1 seed to a player who's never won a grass court tournament. I don't care what she's ranked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrserenawilliams
I don't think Venus would EVER be #1 this year.
Of course not. This is just a discussion between people on the board, not any prediction of what the committee will do.

Proud to be an American
Not blind. Not uninformed. We are party to atrocities. But the response of the world after 9/11 is worth noting. Even our most dire enemies offered aid. We should all be so lucky.
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post #9 of 40 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2006, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfselesfan
There is no practical difference between seeds 5-8. I think if they were to bump Venus, they would only bump her up to 8, it would have the same effect as bumping her to 5 without ruffling as many feathers.

SF
Yeah, I guess you're right....but it does matter a little bit, in terms of the intangibles. But, yeah, if they put her up that high, it would ruffle some feathers definately

Career Grand Slam in your 20s? Been there done that. Career golden slam your 30s?
There's only 1.
Serena.
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post #10 of 40 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2006, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrserenawilliams
If Wimbledon did a mixed seeding (grass accumen and ranking) like the men....

TOP 16 SEEDS
1. Amelie Mauresmo
2. Maria Sharapova
3. Kim Clijsters
4. Justine Henin-Hardenne
5. Venus Williams (I would say top 4, but it seems too far for them to bump her)
6. Svetlana Kuznetsova
7. Martina Hingis
8. Nadia Petrova
9. Elena Dementieva
10. Patty Schnyder
11. Anastasia Myskina
12. Nicole Vaidisova
13. Francesca Schiavone
14. Anna-Lena Groenefeld
15. Dinara Safina
16. Daniela Hantuchova

The only changes from the actual rankings would be Sharapova @ #2 instead of #4 (especially considering she's 8 points out of 3rd place), Venus @ #5 instead of #10 (more Wimbledon titles than EVERY WOMAN PLAYING SINGLES COMBINED), Svetlana @ #6 (although because of Lindsay's w/d, she would be #6 anyway, (I put her above Petrova because she has a better record and consistently makes the 2nd week) and Martina @ #7 instead of #13 (she's won once and been to the 2nd week a couple of other times).

That being said, I don't think they'll do it, sadly. They are making a statement that men are different (read: better, more valuable) than women. So they give men more money and men better seedings based on their grass abilities (considering it's such a short season), but NAW, women are just there too look pretty and hold up dishes when it's all over.
I agree w/your seedings and the fact that they aren't going to do it.
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post #11 of 40 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2006, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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Hey! Give me some idea of your opinions of the various players abilities on grass...

Proud to be an American
Not blind. Not uninformed. We are party to atrocities. But the response of the world after 9/11 is worth noting. Even our most dire enemies offered aid. We should all be so lucky.
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post #12 of 40 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2006, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana
xx Henin-Hardenne - Last three Wimbledons, DNP, 1r, DNP. what can you do?
Actually, It's SF DNF 1r, but if you expand, it's F SF SF DNP 1r, so it's easier for be to believe in her grass game

Career Grand Slam in your 20s? Been there done that. Career golden slam your 30s?
There's only 1.
Serena.
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post #13 of 40 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2006, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana
BTW, no way would I give the #1 seed to a player who's never won a grass court tournament. I don't care what she's ranked.
I'd put her @ #1 simply because she IS #1 right now, and she's done better there this past decade than everyone not named Williams or Davenport, and over the past 4 years has out performed everyone except the Willies

Career Grand Slam in your 20s? Been there done that. Career golden slam your 30s?
There's only 1.
Serena.
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post #14 of 40 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2006, 02:07 PM
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Amélie played last year
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post #15 of 40 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2006, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyBoy
Amélie played last year
My bad. I was trying to be careful, and go from the WTA charts. And so managed to include a DNP for '06 in everybody's stats.

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Not blind. Not uninformed. We are party to atrocities. But the response of the world after 9/11 is worth noting. Even our most dire enemies offered aid. We should all be so lucky.
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