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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 2005, 04:57 AM Thread Starter
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The world according to a U.S. sportsmag

100 greatest female athletes:

1. Jackie Joyner-Kersee (USA), track & field
2. Babe Didrickson Zacharias (USA), track & field
3. Billie Jean King (USA), tennis
4. Sonja Henie (NOR), figure skating
5. Martina Navratilova (USA), tennis
6. Chris Evert (USA), tennis
7. Bonnie Blair (USA), speed skating
8. Wilma Rudolph (USA), track & field
9. Nadia Comaneci (ROM), gymnastics
10. Tracy Caulkins (USA), swimming
11. Florence Griffith Joyner (USA), track & field
12. Mia Hamm (USA), soccer
13. Nancy Lopez (USA), gold
14. Steffi Graf (GER), tennis

Not bad.
But Peggy Fleming instead of Sonja Henie, Mary Lou Retton instead of Nadia Comaneci and Serena Williams instead of Steffi Graf would have been preferable.

OK, OK, some Euroweenies will say, why is the "female speed skater of the century" (Gunda Niemann, voted by the international speed skating associaton) not even in the top100 and Bonnie Blair so high? Why is it that Chris Evert was greater than the greatest ball sports woman of the 20th century Steffi Graf (voted by a IOC panel)? Who thinks that Mary Decker (?) really is the 5th greatest track & fielder ever?

But these Europeans simply didn't deliver!
This German Steffi gal simply should have won 2 more Wimbledons!
Could have propelled her higher than Nancy and Mia perhaps ...
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 2005, 04:59 AM
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 2005, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calimero377
100 greatest female athletes:

14. Steffi Graf (GER), tennis

..

14. Steffi Graf (GER), tennis


poor thing ... how much more suffering and anguish can this bimbo Graf fan take

Last edited by tennis aus; Oct 29th, 2005 at 07:20 AM.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 2005, 05:02 AM
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You sure need a lot of validation for your opinions if you take this much offense from a magazine.

Martina/Serena/Venus/Monica

Lindsay*ElenaD*Milagros*Mary*Svetlana*Nuria*
Mashona*Dinara*Laura*Chrissie*VeraD*JelenaD*Lucie*

Ana*Sania*Shuai*Katarina*Nadia*Chanda*Ai*
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 2005, 05:07 AM
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Whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, oh some people think my fave isn't the geatest whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine.

Cali, she's not leavin' Andre. Give it up.

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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 2005, 05:16 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana
Whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, oh some people think my fave isn't the geatest whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine.

Cali, she's not leavin' Andre. Give it up.

Or Brandy Chastain instead of Sonia Henie?
No wait, Sonja at least was successful in U.S. AMERICAN ice shows. That must count for something ...


A small thought experiment:
IF Graf had been American, what rank would she have had?
Be honest, please ....
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 2005, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calimero377
Or Brandy Chastain instead of Sonia Henie?
No wait, Sonja at least was successful in U.S. AMERICAN ice shows. That must count for something ...


A small thought experiment:
IF Graf had been American, what rank would she have had?
Be honest, please ....
13?

She certainly wasn't going to be ranked ahead of any of the tennis players ranked ahead of her!

Evert/Navratilova was THE pre-eminent rivalry of ANY sport, across both genders, of all time! Again, you didn't bother to read what Sports Illustrated wrote, you were too busy whining! Check it out....
Quote:
5. Martina Navratilova
1956-
6. Chris Evert
1954-

Just as the NBA had Bird and Magic, as boxing had Ali and Frazier, and as golf had Nicklaus and Palmer, so did women's tennis once boast an epic rivalry. For upwards of 15 years, Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova matched each other shot for shot, fighting over the sport's most coveted titles and playing an ongoing game of leapfrog for the No. 1 ranking. "Everywhere I went, Chris was there to meet me," says Navratilova. "Everywhere she went, I was there to meet her."

Heightening their rivalry was the fact that Navratilova and her nemesis were a study in contrasts. Martina, a Czech expatriate who embraced America's freedoms, was unabashed about her homosexuality and freely loaned her name to dozens of political causes. Evert, known forever as Chrissy, was, as the nickname implied, the image-conscious girl-next-door with whom fans felt an instant familiarity. Their games betrayed their disparate personalities as well. Evert was the picture of consistency, keeping her foes at bay with classic, impeccably positioned strokes and a will of iron. Navratilova was a relentlessly aggressive athlete who attacked at every opportunity and forced the action.

For all their differences, they were remarkably evenly matched. Evert won 157 career singles titles, and Navratilova claimed 167. Evert was the better clay-court player but reached the semifinals or better on the lawn of Wimbledon a staggering 17 times. Navratilova was at her best on grass but twice won on the red clay at the French Open. Appropriately, they each finished their careers with 18 Grand Slam singles titles. Head-to-head, Navratilova held a 43-37 edge, but Evert, who's two years older, won 23 of their first 29 meetings. Replicating the path of a ball in a tennis match, the "who's better?" debate will continue back and forth in perpetuity.
Beyond the numbers, their rivalry was marked by a profound mutual respect. Chris hated losing to Martina as much as Martina hated losing to Chris, but they felt a shared kinship. "I think we both realized that we pushed each other and, in the end, made the other one a much better player," says Evert, now 44. They were inextricably entwined throughout their playing careers, and it was somehow fitting that when the two players retired, they chose to settle in the same community, Aspen, Colo. As Evert joked at the time, "We just can't seem to shake each other.
Whatever you think of Graf, her impact did NOT compare to the Evert Navratilova rivalry! And as for BJK, she is simply the most most important female athlete in modern history. She didn't transcend tennis. She transcends sports!

You wanna whine about Sonja Henie, Bonnie Blair, Wilma Rudolph, Nadia Comaneci, Tracy Caulkins, Florence Griffith Joyner, Mia Hamm, and Nancy Lopez, go ahead. You might even have a case with Bonnie Blair and FloJo. But on a list that clearly honors the best in each sport over the second best in more popular sports, Graf wasn't cracking the top ten. Nor should she.

Proud to be an American
Not blind. Not uninformed. We are party to atrocities. But the response of the world after 9/11 is worth noting. Even our most dire enemies offered aid. We should all be so lucky.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 2005, 06:28 AM
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The world seen through pink colored U.S.A. sunglasses
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 2005, 07:42 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana
13?

She certainly wasn't going to be ranked ahead of any of the tennis players ranked ahead of her!

Evert/Navratilova was THE pre-eminent rivalry of ANY sport, across both genders, of all time! Again, you didn't bother to read what Sports Illustrated wrote, you were too busy whining! Check it out....Whatever you think of Graf, her impact did NOT compare to the Evert Navratilova rivalry! And as for BJK, she is simply the most most important female athlete in modern history. She didn't transcend tennis. She transcends sports!

You wanna whine about Sonja Henie, Bonnie Blair, Wilma Rudolph, Nadia Comaneci, Tracy Caulkins, Florence Griffith Joyner, Mia Hamm, and Nancy Lopez, go ahead. You might even have a case with Bonnie Blair and FloJo. But on a list that clearly honors the best in each sport over the second best in more popular sports, Graf wasn't cracking the top ten. Nor should she.
It is about greatest.
Graf had many great rivalries.
That Evert played 658 times against Navi doesn't make her greater than Graf.

BJK obviously had enormous influence in the earlier 70ies in the U.S. It was the time of "women's lib" in the U.S.A. She started women's professional tennis. Her co-starters are sadly almost forgotten. BJK was world-class in self-promotion as well after all. Without her professional women's tennis would have come anyway. Maybe 5 years later. So what?

What American posters like to forget is the huge influence Graf had on women's tennis in Europe and Asia. Before her women's tennis was a little bit ridiculed there, not taken seriously. Graf made sports fans who - until then - had prefered men's sports watch women's tennis for the first time.

The world is bigger and greater than the U.S. alone.
Live with it ...

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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 2005, 07:48 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauber
The world seen through pink colored U.S.A. sunglasses

What is most disturbing for me is that this attitude isn't MEANT to be arrogant. They simply BELIEVE that this is the world!

("They" of course meaning not all Americans. There are many, many who regard this bizarre attitude as very embarrassing for their country.)
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 2005, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcana
13?

She certainly wasn't going to be ranked ahead of any of the tennis players ranked ahead of her!

Evert/Navratilova was THE pre-eminent rivalry of ANY sport, across both genders, of all time! Again, you didn't bother to read what Sports Illustrated wrote, you were too busy whining! Check it out....Whatever you think of Graf, her impact did NOT compare to the Evert Navratilova rivalry! And as for BJK, she is simply the most most important female athlete in modern history. She didn't transcend tennis. She transcends sports!

You wanna whine about Sonja Henie, Bonnie Blair, Wilma Rudolph, Nadia Comaneci, Tracy Caulkins, Florence Griffith Joyner, Mia Hamm, and Nancy Lopez, go ahead. You might even have a case with Bonnie Blair and FloJo. But on a list that clearly honors the best in each sport over the second best in more popular sports, Graf wasn't cracking the top ten. Nor should she.
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 2005, 08:09 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVSK

They made a IOC-sponsored vote for the "Greatest Sportspersons of the Century" 6 years ago. The awards were presented at a gala in Vienna.

Women were honoured in 4 categories:

1) athletics
2) ball sports
3) swimming
4) winter sports

The winners were:
1) Nadia Comaneci (ROM)
2) Stefanie Graf (GER)
3) Dawn Fraser (AUS)
4) Annemarie Moser-Pröll (winter sports)

The international track & field association elected Fanny Blankers-Koen (NED) as the greatest track & field sportswoman.

Gunda Niemann (GER) was voted greatest speed skating woman of the century offically by the world speed skating association, BTW.

IIRC, Kati Witt (GER) won the official vote in figure skating, Sonia Henie being 2nd (Maybe Henie 1st and Witt 2nd). No Hamill, no Fleming.

Face it - there is no community in the States that is more rabidly jingoistic than the sports community.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 2005, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calimero377
It is about greatest.
Graf had many great rivalries.
That Evert played 658 times against Navi doesn't make her greater than Graf.

BJK obviously had enormous influence in the earlier 70ies in the U.S. It was the time of "women's lib" in the U.S.A. She started women's professional tennis. Her co-starters are sadly almost forgotten. BJK was world-class in self-promotion as well after all. Without her professional women's tennis would have come anyway. Maybe 5 years later. So what?

What American posters like to forget is the huge influence Graf had on women's tennis in Europe and Asia. Before her women's tennis was a little bit ridiculed there, not taken seriously. Graf made sports fans who - until then - had prefered men's sports watch women's tennis for the first time.

The world is bigger and greater than the U.S. alone.
Live with it ...

I have to agree here, especially when its about being greatest, there is no way Evert and King would be ahead of Graf, Navratilova if counting overall results. It seems like the list is not about the greatest on their sport, but about the greatest contributor for their sport.

Gabriela Sabatini 2006 HOF
18 Grand Slam SF´s, Won 27 titles, 1 GS Sin, 1 GS in Dubs,2 Masters
Sabatini vs Martinez ?
Seasons in the top ten: Sabatini 10 Conchita 9
Straight Seasons in the top ten: Sabatini 10 Conchita 6
Seasons in the top 5: Sabatini 6 Conchita 5
Straight seasons in the top 5: Sabatini 6 Conchita 4
Tier II and above titles
Sabatini 24 Martinez 17
Record at the Masters
Sabatini has 2 titles 2 Runner up and 3 SF
Martinez has 0 titles, 0 RU, and 0 Sf
Record against the best players
Sabatini 40% Martinez 21%
Head to Head
Sabatini leads 9-6 over Martinez
FWTT Hard 111(111 + ny)Carpet 104(104 + ny)Clay 107(107 + 4) Grass 100(100 ny)
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 2005, 09:09 PM
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old Oct 30th, 2005, 06:56 AM
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