Davenport no hard-court queen - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 48 (permalink) Old Sep 24th, 2005, 08:19 AM Thread Starter
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Davenport no hard-court queen

As some people still maintain that Lindsay Davenport is one of the greatest hard-court players of the open era it is quite interesting to analyse her success on this surface (out-door events only) year-by-year.


Until 1997 it is abysmal - let's cover this time with mercy .....

1998:
wins Stanford (vs. Venus), San Diego (vs. Pierce), Manhattan Beach (vs. Hingis), USO (vs. Hingis)
loses Sydney (vs.Serena), AO (vs. Martinez), Oklahoma (vs. Venus), Indian Wells (Hingis), Key Biscayne (Kournikova), New Haven (Graf).
4 tournament wins, 6 losses. Not bad.

1999:
wins Sydney (vs. Hingis), Stanford (vs. Venus)
loses AO (vs. Momo), Indian Wells (vs. Serena), Key Biscayne (Graf, w.o.), San Diego (vs. Venus), Manhattan Beach (vs. Halard), New Haven (vs. Venus), USO (vs.Serena)
2 tournament wins, 7 losses (one w.o.). Mediocre.

2000:
wins AO (vs. Hingis), Indian Wells (vs. Hingis)
loses Sydney (vs. Momo), Miami (vs. Hingis), Stanford (vs. Hingis), Stanford (vs. Venus), San Diego (vs. Kournikova), Los Angeles (vs. Serena), Canadian Open (vs. Maleeva), USO (vs. Venus)
2 tournament wins, 8 losses. Mediocre (AO though).

2001:
wins Scottsdale (vs. Shaughessy), Los Angeles (vs. Seles)
loses Sydney (vs. Hingis), AO (vs. Capriati), Indian Wells (vs. Serena), Miami (vs. Demented), Stanford (vs. Clijsters), San Diego (vs. Venus), New Haven (vs. Venus), USO (vs. Serena)
2 tournament wins, 8 losses. Mediocre.

2002:
wins zero
loses Stanford (vs. Clijsters), San Diego (vs. Venus), Los Angeles (vs. Rubin), New Haven (vs. Venus), USO (vs. Serena)
zero tournament wins, 5 losses. Embarrassing.

2003:
wins zero
loses Sydney (vs. Clijsters), AO (vs. Enna), Scottsdale (vs. Sugiyama), Indian Wells (vs. Clijsters), Miami (vs. Bartoli), San Diego (vs. Clijsters), Los Angeles (vs. Clijsters), New Haven (vs. Capriati), USO (vs. Clijsters).
zero tournament wins, 9 losses. Beyond embarrassing.

2004:
wins Stanford (vs. Venus), Los Angeles (vs. Serena), San Diego (vs. Myskina), Cincinnati (vs. Zvonareva)
loses AO (vs. Enna), Indian Wells (vs. Enna), USO (vs. Kuzzy)
4 tournament wins, 3 losses. Not bad (no slam though).

2005:
wins Dubai (vs. Jankovic), New Haven (vs. Momo), Bali (vs. Schiavone)
loses AO (vs. Serena), Indian Wells (vs. Clijsters), Stanford (vs. ALG), USO (vs. Demented)
3 tournament wins, 4 losses. Mediocre.


From 1998-2005 Davenport has won 17 hard-court tournaments. And lost at 50.
17-50.

Graf has won 37 hard-court tournaments in 1986-96. And lost at 18.
37-18.

17-50 or 37-18 - what is better?


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post #2 of 48 (permalink) Old Sep 24th, 2005, 08:32 AM
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Well Lindsay achieved her record without assistance from Gunther Parche.

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post #3 of 48 (permalink) Old Sep 24th, 2005, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam L
Well Lindsay achieved her record without assistance from Gunther Parche.
Oh snap!
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post #4 of 48 (permalink) Old Sep 24th, 2005, 08:45 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam L
Well Lindsay achieved her record without assistance from Gunther Parche.

Without Parche Davenport never would have won a tournament with Seles being in the draw. Or do you really think that Lindsay would have won USO 98, Wim 99 and AO 00 without The Seles Stabbing????

Graf on the other hand won most of her hard-court titles pre-Stabbing.
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post #5 of 48 (permalink) Old Sep 24th, 2005, 08:48 AM
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Considering Lindsay has battled some injury problems earlier this decade, you can't fault that her record is not as good as it could be on hard courts.

But her career hard-court record of 408-94 so far is hardly what I would call shabby, even if she doesn't have Graf-like numbers.

(and not sure why you are omitting her pre-98 record since she did win 5 titles when she was not in the greatest shape of her career)
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post #6 of 48 (permalink) Old Sep 24th, 2005, 08:49 AM
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Someone needs to get a life. Seriously ...
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post #7 of 48 (permalink) Old Sep 24th, 2005, 09:00 AM
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But no one ever said Davenport was greater than Graf, on any surface!!!!


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post #8 of 48 (permalink) Old Sep 24th, 2005, 09:04 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakeev
Considering Lindsay has battled some injury problems earlier this decade, you can't fault that her record is not as good as it could be on hard courts.

But her career hard-court record of 408-94 so far is hardly what I would call shabby, even if she doesn't have Graf-like numbers.

(and not sure why you are omitting her pre-98 record since she did win 5 titles when she was not in the greatest shape of her career)

Actually she won 7 (outdoor) hard-court tournaments in 1991-1997. But had 33 losses on that surface too.
So Lindsay has won 24 and lost 83.

BTW, do you want me to mail you the Graf career injury list? What do you think Graf would have been able to achieve without those tons of injuries?
She missed 7 slams due to injury in the 90ies. She most probably would have won AO 95 and/or 96 if she hadn't been sidelined due to injury. And that would have given her a second or even third Grand Slam.
Without her terrible knee injury her career most probably would not have virtually ended in 1997 (at age 27). If Graf had had a relatively injury-free career as both Navi or Evert have had she would have about 30 slams under her belt today.
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post #9 of 48 (permalink) Old Sep 24th, 2005, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calimero377
BTW, do you want me to mail you the Graf career injury list? What do you think Graf would have been able to achieve without those tons of injuries?
She missed 7 slams due to injury in the 90ies. She most probably would have won AO 95 and/or 96 if she hadn't been sidelined due to injury. And that would have given her a second or even third Grand Slam.
Without her terrible knee injury her career most probably would not have virtually ended in 1997 (at age 27). If Graf had had a relatively injury-free career as both Navi or Evert have had she would have about 30 slams under her belt today.
Could've, Would've, Should've girl.

I prefer Margaret Court with her 24 grand slam singles titles.

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post #10 of 48 (permalink) Old Sep 24th, 2005, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin.
But no one ever said Davenport was greater than Graf, on any surface!!!!

You sure?

"Queenlindsay" says:

"No one took hardcourt season like Lindsay does!!!
twice in her career she swipe all hardcourts before US Open winning 4 titles in 4 weeks('98 and 2004).

Lindsay also took slams indoor season, sweeping fall season with 3 or titles in as much weeks.

Best Hardcourt player:

1. Lindsay Davenport

Best Indoor player:

1. Lindsay Davenport"
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post #11 of 48 (permalink) Old Sep 24th, 2005, 09:13 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveFifteen
Someone needs to get a life. Seriously ...

LoveThirty ...
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post #12 of 48 (permalink) Old Sep 24th, 2005, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calimero377
You sure?

"Queenlindsay" says:

"No one took hardcourt season like Lindsay does!!!
twice in her career she swipe all hardcourts before US Open winning 4 titles in 4 weeks('98 and 2004).

Lindsay also took slams indoor season, sweeping fall season with 3 or titles in as much weeks.

Best Hardcourt player:

1. Lindsay Davenport

Best Indoor player:

1. Lindsay Davenport"
Queen Lindsay is just a biased fan, not even pretending to be an objective observer.


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post #13 of 48 (permalink) Old Sep 24th, 2005, 09:15 AM
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i think your "mediocre's" should really be considered "good's"
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post #14 of 48 (permalink) Old Sep 24th, 2005, 09:21 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam L
Could've, Would've, Should've girl.

I prefer Margaret Court with her 24 grand slam singles titles.

98 % of the world's population would prefer Graf's career.

Graf has 4 Wimbledons and 1 FO more than Court.
Court has 7 more AOs instead.
I don't even want to dwell on the strength of the AO fields in the 60ies (How many matches did you have to win the title back then - 4 or 5? ) ...

BTW, Graf is not a woulda-shoulda-coulda girl.
She has the silverware in her living room at home. And damn, she wins all these greatest-ever polls .....
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post #15 of 48 (permalink) Old Sep 24th, 2005, 09:22 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceiling_fan
i think your "mediocre's" should really be considered "good's"

If you apply "greatest-ever" standards then "mediocre" still is extremely benevolent ...
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