Greatest depth since 1955/56! - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2005, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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Greatest depth since 1955/56!

We are living in great times!
Great times for women's tennis that is.
6 different slam winners in the last 6 slams (Myskina FO 04, Sharapova Wim 04, Kuzzy USO 04, Serena AO 05, Enna FO 05, Venus Wim 05). Everybody beats everybody, favourites stumble, outsiders prevail.

Long gone are the boring times when Margaret Court, Chris Evert, Martina Navratilova and Steffi Graf refused to let the rest of the pack win more than necessary. And in earlier times we had the likes of Suzanne Lenglen, Helen Wills-Moody, Maureen Connolly.

Only once since WW1 we saw a 6-year time frame in which no-one of those greedy players made tennis boring.

1955-61!
OK, in distant Australia a young native called Margaret Smith won her first titles (AO 60/61) but in Europe and the U.S. players like Louise Brough, Althea Gibson, Maria Esther Bueno, Shirley Fry, Beverly Fleitz, Susie Komorczy, Angela Mortimer, Darlene Hard played for the silverware. Everybody beat everybody, favourites stumbled, outsiders prevailed.

Sadly we can predict that some greedy players will come along again in the next 40 years who win 12plus slams like Lenglen, Wills, Evert, Court, Navi and Graf. Maybe their name will be Miller, Schmidt, Melnikova, Dubois and Lopez.

And in 2050 people will know the names of Lenglen, Wills, Court, Evert, Navratilova, Graf, Miller, Schmidt, Melnikova, Dubois and Lopez.

Fry, Gibson, Mortimer, Davenport, Williams and Sharapova will be forgotten. All the depth of 55-61 and 00-05 notwithstanding ....
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2005, 05:04 PM
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Actually all the slam winners of this year had already won 3+ slams before so they are hardly flukes.
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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2005, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calimero377
We are living in great times!
Great times for women's tennis that is.
6 different slam winners in the last 6 slams (Myskina FO 04, Sharapova Wim 04, Kuzzy USO 04, Serena AO 05, Enna FO 05, Venus Wim 05). Everybody beats everybody, favourites stumble, outsiders prevail.

Long gone are the boring times when Margaret Court, Chris Evert, Martina Navratilova and Steffi Graf refused to let the rest of the pack win more than necessary. And in earlier times we had the likes of Suzanne Lenglen, Helen Wills-Moody, Maureen Connolly.

Only once since WW1 we saw a 6-year time frame in which no-one of those greedy players made tennis boring.

1955-61!
OK, in distant Australia a young native called Margaret Smith won her first titles (AO 60/61) but in Europe and the U.S. players like Louise Brough, Althea Gibson, Maria Esther Bueno, Shirley Fry, Beverly Fleitz, Susie Komorczy, Angela Mortimer, Darlene Hard played for the silverware. Everybody beat everybody, favourites stumbled, outsiders prevailed.

Sadly we can predict that some greedy players will come along again in the next 40 years who win 12plus slams like Lenglen, Wills, Evert, Court, Navi and Graf. Maybe their name will be Miller, Schmidt, Melnikova, Dubois and Lopez.

And in 2050 people will know the names of Lenglen, Wills, Court, Evert, Navratilova, Graf, Miller, Schmidt, Melnikova, Dubois and Lopez.

Fry, Gibson, Mortimer, Davenport, Williams and Sharapova will be forgotten. All the depth of 55-61 and 00-05 notwithstanding ....
One can only speculate what would have happened had Connolly not been forced to abandon her career in 1954. maybe she'd have dominated right through the 1950s. As it was, her departure left the way clear for Doris Hart (retired 1955) Shirley Fry (turned pro in early 1957), and Althea Gibson (turned pro in 1958) to have their moment in the sun. Maybe they would have had it anyway. Given the amateur rules in force at the time, immediately these women turned pro, they were no longer able to play the slams. That left a gap at the top, which was filled first by Bueno & Hard 59-61 and then Margaret Smith.

ps Beverly Baker- Fleitz also turned pro in 1959.

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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2005, 08:53 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Hautbois
Actually all the slam winners of this year had already won 3+ slams before so they are hardly flukes.

In the great wave of time they are ....

In 50 years from now people won't know them (OK, perhaps Enna - if she made about 6 or 8 slams more which is possible). But of course they will know Evert, Navi and Graf.
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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2005, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calimero377
In the great wave of time they are ....

In 50 years from now people won't know them (OK, perhaps Enna - if she made about 6 or 8 slams more which is possible). But of course they will know Evert, Navi and Graf.
Nah! You did NOT just forget Serena Williams! Serena and Venus will definately be remembered. Serena's going to win another two slams minimum. Sharapova's going to stick around as well. We'll see...

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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2005, 08:58 PM
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Oh and Althea Gibson is remembered. I don't know why you would say she is not.

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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2005, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calimero377
In the great wave of time they are ....

In 50 years from now people won't know them (OK, perhaps Enna - if she made about 6 or 8 slams more which is possible). But of course they will know Evert, Navi and Graf.
And I would think just about everyone knows (and will know) of Billie Jean King and Monica Seles.

Margaret Thatcher - Michele Bachmann two strong women of our time.
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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2005, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy T
One can only speculate what would have happened had Connolly not been forced to abandon her career in 1954. maybe she'd have dominated right through the 1950s. As it was, her departure left the way clear for Doris Hart (retired 1955) Shirley Fry (turned pro in early 1957), and Althea Gibson (turned pro in 1958) to have their moment in the sun. Maybe they would have had it anyway. Given the amateur rules in force at the time, immediately these women turned pro, they were no longer able to play the slams. That left a gap at the top, which was filled first by Bueno & Hard 59-61 and then Margaret Smith.

ps Beverly Baker- Fleitz also turned pro in 1959.

Maureen Connolly was intending to turn professional after competing at Forest Hills in 1954.

This came out at the court case into compensation for her injury.

Margaret Thatcher - Michele Bachmann two strong women of our time.
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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2005, 09:18 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chris whiteside
And I would think just about everyone knows (and will know) of Billie Jean King and Monica Seles.


In 50 years???
I doubt that.
How BJK "invented" professional tennis or how Seles was stabbed - that will be footnotes of history only in 2050.

Graf on the other hand has two big advantages: her beautiful legs and her graceful dancer's style of play. People will be able to marvel at her moving around the court effortlessly when they rewatch her great matches. As a contemporary tennis expert said a few years ago: "There's not one girl I see playing - I don't care if her name is Martina Hingis, Venus Williams or Serena Williams - who'll be what Graf was. Steffi was a thoroughbred running and the rest are mules."
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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2005, 09:43 PM
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You definitelly need to go out more and see different people . You are boring the hell out of me and this board with your obsession.
Repeating yourself over and over again is sign of a dysfunction to say the least.

And Graf place in history will be marked by asterisks ***
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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2005, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calimero377
In 50 years???
I doubt that.
How BJK "invented" professional tennis or how Seles was stabbed - that will be footnotes of history only in 2050.

Graf on the other hand has two big advantages: her beautiful legs and her graceful dancer's style of play. People will be able to marvel at her moving around the court effortlessly when they rewatch her great matches. As a contemporary tennis expert said a few years ago: "There's not one girl I see playing - I don't care if her name is Martina Hingis, Venus Williams or Serena Williams - who'll be what Graf was. Steffi was a thoroughbred running and the rest are mules."
You are absolutely an idiot if you think that Billie Jean King will not be remembered. Just absolutely an idiot. Oh wait, I knew that already .

And I know you hate Monica, but she won nine grand slams and changed the way the game was played. She's going to be remembered.

Now, none of the general public will remember any of these athletes, except Martina Navratilova. Graf was obviously a more accomplished singles player, but she did not want to be a celebrity, whereas Martina did. Navratilova and Agassi/Sampras will be remembered (maybe Federer.)

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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2005, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ezekiel
You definitelly need to go out more and see different people . You are boring the hell out of me and this board with your obsession.
Repeating yourself over and over again is sign of a dysfunction to say the least.

And Graf place in history will be marked by asterisks ***

Yes.
*Career cut short due to tons of injuries.
** Had to battle extreme off-court distractions.
*** Broke 9-time Wimbledon champ Navratilova in 7 consecutive service games in 1988 Wimbledon final.
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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2005, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mboyle
You are absolutely an idiot if you think that Billie Jean King will not be remembered. Just absolutely an idiot. Oh wait, I knew that already .

And I know you hate Monica, but she won nine grand slams and changed the way the game was played. She's going to be remembered.

Now, none of the general public will remember any of these athletes, except Martina Navratilova. Graf was obviously a more accomplished singles player, but she did not want to be a celebrity, whereas Martina did. Navratilova and Agassi/Sampras will be remembered (maybe Federer.)


BJK will be remembered by the tennis historians.
Graf by the general public because of her unique and simply beautiful style to play tennis. She played like a primaballerina, no male player could do that. BJK's and Navi's style was not unique - thousands of men played the same in the last decades. And better than them.

BJK and Navi are well known today because they talk.
That won't help them in 50 years.
Graf is well known because of her graceful game.
That will help her in 50 years ...


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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2005, 10:07 PM
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Althea Gibson was ALREADY pretty much forgotton untill Venus and Serena came on the scene! (Even though she won FIVE slams)


Hmmm.... I wonder why that was???

Even if Venus and Serena never win another Major, they will be remembered as two SISTERS who played for SIX major chanpionships... And won 12 singles SLAM titles.
six DOUBLES slam titles, Olympics, etc.
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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2005, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calimero377
Yes.
*Career cut short due to tons of injuries.
** Had to battle extreme off-court distractions.
*** Broke 9-time Wimbledon champ Navratilova in 7 consecutive service games in 1988 Wimbledon final.

* had to battle 30 year olds on her way to the top
** Only way to get back on top was to physically remove her main competitor
***Brought the women's tennis to a dead halt with the boring game, no personality and never giving credit to opponents.
**** The game got more popular once she retired
***** Tried to fool the tax man
******has many certifiably crazy and violent followers just like Bin Laden
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