Venus, behind every successful performer there is a superb management. - TennisForum.com
 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 24th, 2005, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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Venus, behind every successful performer there is a superb management.

Venus, where is yours? Successful tennis management includes:
1- general coaching
2- targeted coaching
3- physical training and nutrition
4- scouting the competition before each match and determining game plans based on the opponent's weaknesses
5- short, mid and long term goals
6- tournament selection with adequate preparation
7- public relations (PR) and capitalization on stardom

Venus, can your mother do all that? I'm sure some people are helping here and there, but item 4 certainly was not looked after regarding Molik yesterday. Point in case, her weak point, the backhand, was left alone. Concentration on that could have turned 1-of-7 breakpoint conversions into 3-of-7, or more.

Venus's plan as per her post-match interview:
Quote:
... I'll just go home and work a little harder, ask my mom what I was doing wrong out there today.
Huh! Hopefully, there is more to it than that. This a beaten and tired subject anyway. Venus's parents were fundamental to her development and did a fantastic job in the past. After 10, 15 years, things do change and management must either adapt or be revamped.

Let's look at it from another angle, that is, Venus's own judgment.
Quote:
Q. When was the last time you felt you were playing consistently well?

VENUS WILLIAMS: Third round.
Well, let's take a look at 3rd and 4th round stats.

Code:
3rd round - Match Summary 
    		Smashnova (ISR)  		Williams (USA) 
     
  1st Serve % 24 of 38 = 63 % 			34 of 52 = 65 % 
 
  Aces 			0 			3 
 
  Double Faults 	3 			1 
 
  Unforced Errors 	17 			26 
 
  Winning % on 1st Serve 10 of 24 = 42 % 	25 of 34 = 74 % 
 
  Winning % on 2nd Serve 6 of 14 = 43 % 	8 of 18 = 44 % 
 
  Winners (Including Service) 3 		24 
 
  Receiving Points Won 19 of 52 = 37 % 		22 of 38 = 58 % 
 
  Break Point Conversions 1 of 3 = 33 % 	5 of 9 = 56 % 
 
  Net Approaches 1 of 3 = 33 % 			19 of 25 = 76 % 
 
  Total Points Won 	35 			55 
 
  Fastest Serve 	159 km/h 		191 km/h 
 
  Average 1st Serve Speed 144 km/h 		167 km/h 
 
  Average 2nd Serve Speed 138 km/h 		133 km/h
Code:
4th round - Match Summary 
    		Molik (AUS)  			Williams (USA) 
     
  1st Serve % 41 of 84 = 49 % 			43 of 73 = 59 % 
 
  Aces 			7 			2 
 
  Double Faults 	2			4 
 
  Unforced Errors 	26 			28 
 
  Winning % on 1st Serve 33 of 41 = 80 % 	31 of 43 = 72 % 
 
  Winning % on 2nd Serve 22 of 43 = 51 % 	12 of 30 = 40 % 
 
  Winners (Including Service) 24 		25 
 
  Receiving Points Won 30 of 73 = 41 % 		29 of 84 = 35 % 
 
  Break Point Conversions 2 of 4 = 50 % 	1 of 7 = 14 % 
 
  Net Approaches 12 of 16 = 75 % 		16 of 25 = 64 % 
 
  Total Points Won 	85 			72 
 
  Fastest Serve		193 km/h 		181 km/h 
 
  Average 1st Serve Speed 172 km/h 		165 km/h 
 
  Average 2nd Serve Speed 152 km/h 		135 km/h
Winning % on 1st and 2nd serve are about the same
Average speeds on 1st and 2nd again are about the same
Net approaches are exactly the same: 25
The other figures are mostly due to different opponents.

So, how could the 3rd round be better than the 4th? Molik was just better than Smashnova, while Venus remained the same.

In the medical field, it is requested of doctors (not just recommended) that they not be their own doctors or be doctors of family members. Lawyers follow similar rules if they want to win. Accountants generally never take good care of their own affairs. Why should it be any different for tennis players? Look where Hingis ended up, with her mother at the helm. I'm not advocating outright rebellion against parents. Their views are highly valued, but their judgments are severely and unwittingly compromised by the relationship.

Vee, take heed, you have my eternal love and I wish you all the best.

** TP for Topaz or TennisPower **

"Playing aggressive tennis ... that's always the way to go, if you ask me." - Venus Williams, May/2002
"Some shots I will hit hard but not every ball. I'm not just using my power." - Serena Williams, Oct/2002
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 24th, 2005, 08:22 PM
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Richard was sending her e-pictures by cell phone according to what i've read.

"For now, Roddick seems to play with the intelligence of a fence post."
Greg Couch, Chicago Sun Times
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 24th, 2005, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topaz
Venus, where is yours? Successful tennis management includes:
1- general coaching
2- targeted coaching
3- physical training and nutrition
4- scouting the competition before each match and determining game plans based on the opponent's weaknesses
5- short, mid and long term goals
6- tournament selection with adequate preparation
7- public relations (PR) and capitalization on stardom

Venus, can your mother do all that? I'm sure some people are helping here and there, but item 4 certainly was not looked after regarding Molik yesterday. Point in case, her weak point, the backhand, was left alone. Concentration on that could have turned 1-of-7 breakpoint conversions into 3-of-7, or more.

Venus's plan as per her post-match interview:Huh! Hopefully, there is more to it than that. This a beaten and tired subject anyway. Venus's parents were fundamental to her development and did a fantastic job in the past. After 10, 15 years, things do change and management must either adapt or be revamped.

Let's look at it from another angle, that is, Venus's own judgment.Well, let's take a look at 3rd and 4th round stats.

Code:
3rd round - Match Summary 
		Smashnova (ISR) 		Williams (USA) 
 
1st Serve % 24 of 38 = 63 % 			34 of 52 = 65 % 
 
Aces 			0 			3 
 
Double Faults 	3 			1 
 
Unforced Errors 	17 			26 
 
Winning % on 1st Serve 10 of 24 = 42 % 	25 of 34 = 74 % 
 
Winning % on 2nd Serve 6 of 14 = 43 % 	8 of 18 = 44 % 
 
Winners (Including Service) 3 		24 
 
Receiving Points Won 19 of 52 = 37 % 		22 of 38 = 58 % 
 
Break Point Conversions 1 of 3 = 33 % 	5 of 9 = 56 % 
 
Net Approaches 1 of 3 = 33 % 			19 of 25 = 76 % 
 
Total Points Won 	35 			55 
 
Fastest Serve 	159 km/h 		191 km/h 
 
Average 1st Serve Speed 144 km/h 		167 km/h 
 
Average 2nd Serve Speed 138 km/h 		133 km/h
Code:
4th round - Match Summary 
		Molik (AUS) 			Williams (USA) 
 
1st Serve % 41 of 84 = 49 % 			43 of 73 = 59 % 
 
Aces 			7 			2 
 
Double Faults 	2			4 
 
Unforced Errors 	26 			28 
 
Winning % on 1st Serve 33 of 41 = 80 % 	31 of 43 = 72 % 
 
Winning % on 2nd Serve 22 of 43 = 51 % 	12 of 30 = 40 % 
 
Winners (Including Service) 24 		25 
 
Receiving Points Won 30 of 73 = 41 % 		29 of 84 = 35 % 
 
Break Point Conversions 2 of 4 = 50 % 	1 of 7 = 14 % 
 
Net Approaches 12 of 16 = 75 % 		16 of 25 = 64 % 
 
Total Points Won 	85 			72 
 
Fastest Serve		193 km/h 		181 km/h 
 
Average 1st Serve Speed 172 km/h 		165 km/h 
 
Average 2nd Serve Speed 152 km/h 		135 km/h
Winning % on 1st and 2nd serve are about the same
Average speeds on 1st and 2nd again are about the same
Net approaches are exactly the same: 25
The other figures are mostly due to different opponents.

So, how could the 3rd round be better than the 4th? Molik was just better than Smashnova, while Venus remained the same.

In the medical field, it is requested of doctors (not just recommended) that they not be their own doctors or be doctors of family members. Lawyers follow similar rules if they want to win. Accountants generally never take good care of their own affairs. Why should it be any different for tennis players? Look where Hingis ended up, with her mother at the helm. I'm not advocating outright rebellion against parents. Their views are highly valued, but their judgments are severely and unwittingly compromised by the relationship.

Vee, take heed, you have my eternal love and I wish you all the best.
I agree completely. You would think her mother would think of Venus career and do something about it.

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Surving in Seoul South Korea since 2007
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 24th, 2005, 09:50 PM
 
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Great Analysis. I like the fact that you did not take the opportunity to bash the Queen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcesHigh
I'll say this in public once. I miss serena so much. Fed is my favorite player but no one does it like her.

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2005, 12:10 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tennischick
Richard was sending her e-pictures by cell phone according to what i've read.


The commentators said something similar at the beginning of the match. It was referred to as high-tech coaching.

...That's sad.

** TP for Topaz or TennisPower **

"Playing aggressive tennis ... that's always the way to go, if you ask me." - Venus Williams, May/2002
"Some shots I will hit hard but not every ball. I'm not just using my power." - Serena Williams, Oct/2002
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2005, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topaz


The commentators said something similar at the beginning of the match. It was referred to as high-tech coaching.

...That's sad.
It is sad, and why doesn't Richard work with the girls in the states, and then have a traveling coach who knows what to do with them. Oracene isn't doing anything right, but if Richard doesn't want to fly, then send someone that has instructions from him to do what he wants them to work on.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2005, 12:27 AM
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all I know is when Venus travels with Oracene the net is a foreign object......when she travels with Daddy she comes in a lot more.

Why oh Why did they get divorced!

j/k!
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2005, 12:31 AM
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by harloo
Great Analysis. I like the fact that you did not take the opportunity to bash the Queen.
Why would he bash Elton John ??
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2005, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bajangurl
lol- some of the Venus fans will get you for saying this Closer to the truth though is that the Williams camp probably recognizes all this (Richard aint no dummy and he didn't raise any either) but they are so bent on doing things 'their' way and bucking the establishment, that they will probably continue to do things as they see fit. To be honest, both Venus and Serena have stellar careers and have accomplished all that their parents have set out for them and more, so some can rightfully argue that they have nothing to prove blah, but IMO, if you are going to be on tour and claim that you want to win, you have to step it up now that the competition has improved. It would be different imo if Venus thought that she was just adequate but she believes otherwise, but what she doesn't seem to get, is that what she did before isn't good enough anymore. I'm done with this topic, i've said enough- unless i send her some fan mail, I'm done because nothing any of us say here will change anything
Best post of the day. I totally agree with you. I'm so sick of this topic. It's a broken record, because as you say Venus and Co. are going to do what they want. But, to continue to do the same thing over and over expecting different results is the definition of insanity. I think she's spinning her wheels, and it's very fraustrating to her fans and tennis fans alike. I want to see her full potential and I don't think we have, even with all that she's accomplished.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2005, 12:48 AM
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Have to say its a breath of fresh air to come into this thread and see some Willi fans capable of being objective in their analysis of their fave. I can recall a time when fellow Williams fans wouldnt have tolerated this sort of 'treason'..

But great posts and I can see they all come from a concerned fan point of view.

Its really sad for me to see Venus contining to be a shadow of her former self, knowing she is not fulfilling her potential..

Ive never been a die hard fan but have found myself really wanting the Willi's to come back and make a big statement now that their domination is well and truely over..

and it does get exasperating reading Venus's press conference. She has never been very open with the press, usually she is quite guarded about what she discloses..hopefully she does have more of a plan to rectify her sliding results..I'd love to see both Serena and Venus back to their best..
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 2005, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Czechfan
Have to say its a breath of fresh air to come into this thread and see some Willi fans capable of being objective in their analysis of their fave. I can recall a time when fellow Williams fans wouldnt have tolerated this sort of 'treason'..

But great posts and I can see they all come from a concerned fan point of view.

Its really sad for me to see Venus contining to be a shadow of her former self, knowing she is not fulfilling her potential..

Ive never been a die hard fan but have found myself really wanting the Willi's to come back and make a big statement now that their domination is well and truely over..

and it does get exasperating reading Venus's press conference. She has never been very open with the press, usually she is quite guarded about what she discloses..hopefully she does have more of a plan to rectify her sliding results..I'd love to see both Serena and Venus back to their best..
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