Who is better? Navratilova or Steffi Graf? - TennisForum.com

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post #1 of 198 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2004, 08:45 AM Thread Starter
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Who is better? Navratilova or Steffi Graf?

Steffi would have a hard time avoiding gettin double bagelled.
Ppl say Steffi was better than Navratilova having won more GS titles in singles but is she?
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post #2 of 198 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2004, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Seiya
Steffi would have a hard time avoiding gettin double bagelled.
Ppl say Steffi was better than Navratilova having won more GS titles in singles but is she?

Gunther Parche....

Last edited by Greatest; Dec 10th, 2004 at 01:57 PM.
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post #3 of 198 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2004, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Seiya
Steffi would have a hard time avoiding gettin double bagelled.
Ppl say Steffi was better than Navratilova having won more GS titles in singles but is she?
Where were their biggest matches? Grand Slam events and the WTA Tour Championships.

Navratilova had the winning edge vs. Graf at Grand Slam events ... Navratilova also had the winning edge vs. Graf in the WTA Tour Championships.

Navratilova had a winning record vs. Graf where it counted most -- the biggest events in the world.

Well, let's COUNT them then:


GRAND SLAM EVENTS

First, we will start with the Grand Slam events --- let's limit the results to the Australian Open, French Open, Wimbledon and U.S. Open Championships --- since these actually are the Grand Slam events:

1985-08-26 U.S. Open Hardcourt SF Navratilova won 6-2 6-3
1986-08-25 U.S. Open Hardcourt SF Navratilova won 6-1 6-7 7-6
1987-05-25 French Open Clay F Steffi Graf won 6-4 4-6 8-6
1987-06-22 Wimbledon Grass F Navratilova won 7-5 6-3
1987-08-31 U.S. Open Hardcourt F Navratilova won 7-6 6-1
1988-06-22 Wimbledon Grass F Steffi Graf won 5-7 6-2 6-1
1989-06-26 Wimbledon Grass F Steffi Graf won 6-2 6-7 6-1
1989-08-28 U.S. Open Hardcourt F Steffi Graf won 3-6 7-5 6-1
1991-08-26 U.S. Open Hardcourt SF Navratilova won 7-6 6-7 6-4

Not only a winning record for Navratilova vs. Graf in the Grand Slam events ... Navratilova won their only matches at the Grand Slam events that were won in straight sets ... 3 of Navratilova's 5 match wins vs. Graf in Grand Slam events were won in straight sets ... Graf never beat Navratilova in straight sets in a Grand Slam event --- but then, Graf only won 4 matches against Navratilova in Grand Slam events to begin with.


TOUR CHAMPIONSHIPS

Next, we will look at the Tour Championships --- let's limit the results to the singles since Steffi Graf did not play doubles --

1986-03-17 Virginia Slims Championships SF Navratilova won 6-2 6-2
1986-11-17 Virginia Slims Championships F Navratilova won 7-6 6-3 6-2
1989-11-13 Virginia Slims Championships F Steffi Graf won 6-4 7-5 2-6 6-2

Not only a winning record for Navratilova vs. Graf in the Tour Championships ... Navratilova won their only matches at the Tour Championships that were won in straight sets ... both of Navratilova's 2 match wins vs. Graf in the WTA Tour Championships were won in straight sets ... Graf never beat Navratilova in straight sets the WTA Tour Championships --- but then, Graf only won 1 match against Navratilova at the WTA Tour Championships to begin with
.


Martina Navratilova reigns supreme above Steffi Graf...Not even close
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post #4 of 198 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2004, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Seles
Where were their biggest matches? Grand Slam events and the WTA Tour Championships.

Navratilova had the winning edge vs. Graf at Grand Slam events ... Navratilova also had the winning edge vs. Graf in the WTA Tour Championships.

Navratilova had a winning record vs. Graf where it counted most -- the biggest events in the world.

Well, let's COUNT them then:


GRAND SLAM EVENTS

First, we will start with the Grand Slam events --- let's limit the results to the Australian Open, French Open, Wimbledon and U.S. Open Championships --- since these actually are the Grand Slam events:

1985-08-26 U.S. Open Hardcourt SF Navratilova won 6-2 6-3
1986-08-25 U.S. Open Hardcourt SF Navratilova won 6-1 6-7 7-6
1987-05-25 French Open Clay F Steffi Graf won 6-4 4-6 8-6
1987-06-22 Wimbledon Grass F Navratilova won 7-5 6-3
1987-08-31 U.S. Open Hardcourt F Navratilova won 7-6 6-1
1988-06-22 Wimbledon Grass F Steffi Graf won 5-7 6-2 6-1
1989-06-26 Wimbledon Grass F Steffi Graf won 6-2 6-7 6-1
1989-08-28 U.S. Open Hardcourt F Steffi Graf won 3-6 7-5 6-1
1991-08-26 U.S. Open Hardcourt SF Navratilova won 7-6 6-7 6-4

Not only a winning record for Navratilova vs. Graf in the Grand Slam events ... Navratilova won their only matches at the Grand Slam events that were won in straight sets ... 3 of Navratilova's 5 match wins vs. Graf in Grand Slam events were won in straight sets ... Graf never beat Navratilova in straight sets in a Grand Slam event --- but then, Graf only won 4 matches against Navratilova in Grand Slam events to begin with.


TOUR CHAMPIONSHIPS

Next, we will look at the Tour Championships --- let's limit the results to the singles since Steffi Graf did not play doubles --

1986-03-17 Virginia Slims Championships SF Navratilova won 6-2 6-2
1986-11-17 Virginia Slims Championships F Navratilova won 7-6 6-3 6-2
1989-11-13 Virginia Slims Championships F Steffi Graf won 6-4 7-5 2-6 6-2

Not only a winning record for Navratilova vs. Graf in the Tour Championships ... Navratilova won their only matches at the Tour Championships that were won in straight sets ... both of Navratilova's 2 match wins vs. Graf in the WTA Tour Championships were won in straight sets ... Graf never beat Navratilova in straight sets the WTA Tour Championships --- but then, Graf only won 1 match against Navratilova at the WTA Tour Championships to begin with
.


Martina Navratilova reigns supreme above Steffi Graf...Not even close

There biggest matches were the ones they played at the biggest events --- Wimbledon, U.S. Open, Australian Open, French Open and WTA Tour Championships ....

Navratilova had the winning edge vs. Graf at Grand Slam events ... Navratilova also had the winning edge vs. Graf in the WTA Tour Championships.

Navratilova had a winning record vs. Graf where it counted most -- the biggest events in the world
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post #5 of 198 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2004, 09:09 AM
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The Graf fanatics falsely claim that Graf is better than Navratilova????

Except for when it came to:

• most consecutive years at #1 ...
• most Wimbledon singles titles ...
• most consecutive years winning Wimbledon ...
• most overall total Grand Slam titles won ....
• most singles titles won on the WTA Tour ...
• most doubles titles won on the WTA Tour ...
• most impressive record for longevity and playing past the age of 30.
• most wins head to head between Graf and Navratilova in the Slams.
• most wins head to head between Graf and Navratilova at the Tour Championships.

Oh, and by the way ... Navratilova is the only woman in women's tennis history to have the all-time record for most number of wins at 2 of the 5 biggest events in women's tennis.

Oh, may I add a few more impressive numbers to this list, please? Martina also holds the records for -

-- most singles matches won (Navratilova-1442, Evert-1304, Graf-900)
-- most consecutive singles matched won (74)
-- most consecutive doubles matches won (109, record shared with Pam Shriver)
-- most dominant year (86-1 W/L record in 1983)
-- 2nd oldest player to hold the #1 ranking (Evert was oldest)
-- most career wins over the #1 player
-- most years finished ranked in the top 10 (Navratilova - 20; Evert - 19, Seles & Graf - 13)
-- most weeks ranked #1 in singles and doubles at the same time (Navratilova-103, Graf -0)
-- most career prize money (by far) when you factor in prize money relativity
-- most years finished ranked #1 in prize money
-- most consecutive years earning $100K or more
-- most consecutive years earning $500K or more
-- most years earning $500K or more
-- most consecutive years on top 10 prize money list (Navratilova-20, Evert-16 ... Graf is 6th on this list at 11)
-- most consecutive WTA Tour singles titles (Navratilova-13, Court-12)
-- most consecutive years winning at lest 1 singles title (Navratilova -21, Evert-18,)
-- most singles titles won at the same tournament (Navratilova-Chicago/12, Navratilova-Eastbourne/11, )
-- most consecutive titles won a tthe same tournament (Navratilova-Wimbledon/6, Navratilova-Chicago/6, )
--- most dominant individual performance at a 128-draw grand slam event - US Open: Navratilova conceded just 19 games at the 1983 US Open
- most dominant individual performance at Wimbledon: Navratilova conceded just 25 games at the 1983 Wimbledon (Evert conceded just 26 games at the 1981 Wimbledon)
-- most singles matches won in the same season: Navratilova-74 (1984), Evert-55 (1974), Navratilova 53 (1986), Navratilova 50 (1983), Graf 66 snapped by Monica Seles in Berlin 1990)
-- most consecutive singles finals reached (23)
-- most WTA Tour awards for doubles team of the year (10 - 2 with King, 8 with Shriver)
-- most WTA Tour awards - 18
-- most WTA Tour Special Service to the Game Award - Billie Jean King is the only person to have won this twice since it was first awarded in 1980; Navratilova, Evert and Shriver have all received this award. Graf was never nominated.

Would you like more records for Navratilova or is this enough?
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post #6 of 198 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2004, 09:14 AM
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By the way, Navratilova almost 10 years past her prime made the Wimbledon final in 1990 and 1994 (2 years and 6 years after Graf's Golden Slam) and Navratilova actually won the one in 1990.

Navratilova won her all-time record 9th Wimbledon in 1990 when she was the age that Steffi Graf was in early 2002 - long after Graf had retired.

Navratilova got to the 1994 Wimbledon final when she was the age Steffi Graf will be in the early part of 2006
.
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post #7 of 198 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2004, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Seles
By the way, Navratilova almost 10 years past her prime made the Wimbledon final in 1990 and 1994 (2 years and 6 years after Graf's Golden Slam) and Navratilova actually won the one in 1990.

Navratilova won her all-time record 9th Wimbledon in 1990 when she was the age that Steffi Graf was in early 2002 - long after Graf had retired.

Navratilova got to the 1994 Wimbledon final when she was the age Steffi Graf will be in the early part of 2006
.
Here we are a decade later remembering that Navratilova has the ALL-TIME record for most singles titles at 2 of the 5 biggest events in women's tennis. No other player in women's tennis can claim this --- the all-time record for most singles titles at 2 of the 5 biggest events in women's tennis.

Australian ------------- Margaret Court
French ----------------- Chris Evert
Wimbledon ------------ Martina Navratilova
U.S. Open -------------- Molla Bjurstedt Mallory
WTA Championships --- Martina Navratilova
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post #8 of 198 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2004, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Seiya
Steffi would have a hard time avoiding gettin double bagelled.
Ppl say Steffi was better than Navratilova having won more GS titles in singles but is she?
Martina Narvatilova. No looney involved in all her GS titles.

HAIL TO THE NEW QUEEN: MARIA SHARAPOVA!!!
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post #9 of 198 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2004, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatest
Here we are a decade later remembering that Navratilova has the ALL-TIME record for most singles titles at 2 of the 5 biggest events in women's tennis. No other player in women's tennis can claim this --- the all-time record for most singles titles at 2 of the 5 biggest events in women's tennis.

Australian ------------- Margaret Court
French ----------------- Chris Evert
Wimbledon ------------ Martina Navratilova
U.S. Open -------------- Molla Bjurstedt Mallory
WTA Championships --- Martina Navratilova

No player in women's tennis history has had to face more all-time great women champions during their careers than Evert and Navratilova.

Navratilova won titles against the likes of BJ King, Court, Evert, Graf and Seles (fully half of the all-time top 10).
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post #10 of 198 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2004, 01:06 PM
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post #11 of 198 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2004, 01:35 PM
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Martina was the best on grass, 9 straight Wimbledon finals and 6 straight titles that´s unprecendented!!!, and probably was better on hardcourts too.....but on the slower surfaces Steffi as a baseliner gets the edge again.

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post #12 of 198 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2004, 01:39 PM
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Here's a thought:

Margaret Court has more grass court singles majors than Martina Navratilova. Discuss.

There is nothing more beautiful than Evonne Goolagong in full flight moving across a tennis court.
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post #13 of 198 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2004, 01:41 PM
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Here's my take.
I'm a huge Navratilova fan and have been since the late 1970s. For me she has the perfect mix of athletic and technical skills. I've never seen a better attacker and I've never seen a natural attacker perform better on clay.

BUT
I deeply admire and respect the games and achievements of all the tennis greats I've seen, from Court, King, Goolagong and Evert, through Graf and Seles to Hingis, Serena and Justine, to name only a few. It is futile to argue over who was better because we all know that tennis is a game of relatives between two players on a given day in a given place on a given surface, etc, etc. All we can say is that both Steffi and Martina are among the greatest players the game has ever know, each made a unique contribution to the sport, was the best in the world over a long period during her career and was capable of beating the other on a regular basis. We can say the same for Chrissie and Madge Court and for me those four are the top tier. Martina is the one whose game I personally admire the most and I don't care if other people have a different opinion - as long as they don't insult mine.

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post #14 of 198 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2004, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandabou
Martina was the best on grass, 9 straight Wimbledon finals and 6 straight titles that´s unprecendented!!!, and probably was better on hardcourts too.....but on the slower surfaces Steffi as a baseliner gets the edge again.
"probably hardcourts?

Navratilova leads Graf 5-2 on hardcourts (including 4-1 at the U.S. Open).
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post #15 of 198 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2004, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy T
Here's my take.
I'm a huge Navratilova fan and have been since the late 1970s. For me she has the perfect mix of athletic and technical skills. I've never seen a better attacker and I've never seen a natural attacker perform better on clay.

BUT
I deeply admire and respect the games and achievements of all the tennis greats I've seen, from Court, King, Goolagong and Evert, through Graf and Seles to Hingis, Serena and Justine, to name only a few. It is futile to argue over who was better because we all know that tennis is a game of relatives between two players on a given day in a given place on a given surface, etc, etc. All we can say is that both Steffi and Martina are among the greatest players the game has ever know, each made a unique contribution to the sport, was the best in the world over a long period during her career and was capable of beating the other on a regular basis. We can say the same for Chrissie and Madge Court and for me those four are the top tier. Martina is the one whose game I personally admire the most and I don't care if other people have a different opinion - as long as they don't insult mine.
Martina's chief rival Chris Evert was never stabbed in the back by a jealous fan of Navratilova at the top of her career.
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