Serena vs. Maria at 17: the stats - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old Nov 20th, 2004, 09:51 PM Thread Starter
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Serena vs. Maria at 17: the stats

I'm a Maria fan (and not that keen on Serena), but thought I'd do a bit of digging to see what the facts have to say about this topic...

Serena Williams:
September 26, 1998 - September 26, 1999

(world ranks of opponents in parenthesis)

Filderstadt: bt Novotna(3), ls in qf to Testud(18)
Sydney: ls in 2r to Graf (10)
Aus Open: ls in 3r to Testud (15)
Paris: won tier II title, beating Tauziat (9), Mauresmo (18), Halard-Decugis (21)
Indian Wells: won tier 1 title, beating Davenport (2), Graf (7), Pierce (8), and Testud (14)
Miami: bt Seles(3), Coetzer(9), Hingis(1), before ls in finals to Venus Williams(6)
Italian Open: bt Spirlea (17), loss in qf to Hingis(1)
Berlin: ls in qf to ASV(7)
French Open: ls in 3r to Fernandez(37)
L.A.: won tier II title beating Hingis(1), ASV(8), and Schnyder(19)
US Open: won Grand Slam beating Hingis(1), Davenport(2), Seles(4), and Martinez(17)

stats: won 1 GS, 1 tier I, 2 tier II...reached 1 other final (tier I) and 3 qfs (2 tier I, 1 tier II)
GS Stats: 1 win, 2 third rounds, one did-not-play

Maria Sharapova:
April 19, 2004 - April 19, 2004

Berlin: ls in r3 to Capriati(8)
Rome: bt Dementieva(10), ls in 3r to Farina Elia(16)
French Open: bt Zvonareva(13), ls in QF to Suarez(14)
Birmingham: won tier III title, bt Schnyder(20)
Wimbledon: won GS title, bt Davenport(5), S. Williams (10), and Sugiyama(12)
San Diego: ls in qf to Myskina(5)
Montreal: ls in 2r to Zvonareva(14)
New Haven: ls in 2r to Washington(81)
US Open: ls in 3rd to Pierce(29)
Beijing: ls in SF to Kuznetsova(5)
Seoul: won tier III title (highest ranked opponent- 81st Stosur)
Tokyo: won tier III title (highest ranked opponent- 61st Washington)
Zurich: bt V Williams(11) and Dementieva(5), ls in F to Molik (20)
Philadelphia: bt Molik(13), retired to Mauresmo(1) in SF
TourChamps: won Tier I+ title, bt Myskina(3), Kuznetsova(4), S Williams(8), and Zvonareva(11)

stats: won 1 GS, 1 tier I+, 3 tier III...reached 1 other final (tier I), 2 sf (tier IIs), and 2 qf (GS and tier I)
GS stats: 1 win, 1 QF, 1 3r, 1 yet to be played.

And, mostly likely will play Sydney, Aus Open, Tokyo, Miami/Indian Wells before turning 18.

Last edited by maximus82; Nov 21st, 2004 at 06:30 AM.
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old Nov 20th, 2004, 09:57 PM Thread Starter
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Personally, I think that Serena gets the edge as of now. The big thing that sways it her way (in my mind) is that she had such high success against the top players AND both won comprable titles (serena's miami/indian wells run matches up favorably against masha's YEC)...both have a slam and had success at the lower tiers.

HOWEVER, if Masha can go on a tear at the Aus Open and or Miami/Indian Wells next year, then the scales have to go in her favor. Serena's most impressive accomplishment came at the tail end of her 17th year...perhaps Masha can follow suit by capturing another biggie before 18.

(this is not to compare the two's games or 'rena's later success...Masha (or, anybody, really) will have to be incredible to match Serena's year+ of domination)
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old Nov 20th, 2004, 10:00 PM
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It´s no contest really....Maria at 17 is good, but Serena at 17 was SCARY!

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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old Nov 20th, 2004, 10:06 PM
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What´s that supposed to mean, alpha kenny?

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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old Nov 20th, 2004, 10:10 PM
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Alpha do you not realise that CLEARLY statistics are facts!? Thank you maximus.
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old Nov 20th, 2004, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandabou
It´s no contest really....Maria at 17 is good, but Serena at 17 was SCARY!
No, Serena wasn't scary until the summer, at 17 9 months. Maria hasn't reached that age yet. If you compare Serena until 17 and 7 with Maria until 17 and 7, Maria is much better.

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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old Nov 20th, 2004, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mboyle
No, Serena wasn't scary until the summer, at 17 9 months. Maria hasn't reached that age yet. If you compare Serena until 17 and 7 with Maria until 17 and 7, Maria is much better.
Serena won 16 matches in a row from Paris through Miami F, that's Feb-March so that makes your statement about her not being "scary" until the summer completely false.
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old Nov 20th, 2004, 11:42 PM
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I don' think it matters who had slightly better results or whatever, the facts are that they were both phenomenal players at 17. Good work by them!

Why is it that the world never remembered the name of Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern-
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old Nov 20th, 2004, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knizzle
Serena won 16 matches in a row from Paris through Miami F, that's Feb-March so that makes your statement about her not being "scary" until the summer completely false.
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old Nov 21st, 2004, 12:28 AM
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Serena beat like twice as many top 10 players lol

but when you have to break it down into MONTHS to see who was better...well erm, if Sharapova can almost hold her own against the greatest player of this generation, then she's doing pretty well.
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old Nov 21st, 2004, 12:39 AM
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Not trying to take anything away from Serena, I still believe she's best active player, and she is the best of her generation, but we need to take into consideration the fact that the tour is much more competitive now than when Serena was 17. And Serena was playing a new style of tennis that most players at the time never really got used to, while Sharapova is perfecting that style when most players are used to nowadays

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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old Nov 21st, 2004, 12:45 AM
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We can compare Hingis at 17 and Maria at 17 now

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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old Nov 21st, 2004, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mboyle
No, Serena wasn't scary until the summer, at 17 9 months. Maria hasn't reached that age yet. If you compare Serena until 17 and 7 with Maria until 17 and 7, Maria is much better.
I would have to agree with this 100%
Serena didn't peak until much later.
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old Nov 21st, 2004, 01:27 AM
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Maria's stats are far more impressive than Serena's AT 17 years 7 months. If you can't see that than you are living in denial.
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old Nov 21st, 2004, 01:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximus82
Personally, I think that Serena gets the edge as of now. The big thing that sways it her way (in my mind) is that she had such high success against the top players AND both won comprable titles (serena's miami/indian wells run matches up favorably against masha's YEC)...both have a slam and had success at the lower tiers.

HOWEVER, if Masha can go on a tear at the Aus Open and or Miami/Indian Wells next year, then the scales have to go in her favor. Serena's most impressive accomplishment came at the tail end of her 17th year...perhaps Masha can follow suit by capturing another biggie before 18.

(this is not to compare the two's games or 'rena's later success...Masha (or, anybody, really) will have to be incredible to match Serena's year+ of domination)
Though Masha can only play who turns up in the matches so the comparison of rankings of players beaten - especially in her GS - isn't that indicative of how well she was playing but how well some top seeds were not playing. Masha couldn't beat number 1 and 2 players like Serena did very easily either as for much of her year they were not playing.
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