Martina develops a complex in front of power players? - TennisForum.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2002, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
Team WTAworld
Senior Member
 
saby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: France
Posts: 3,302
                     
Question Martina develops a complex in front of power players?

I have the impression that Martina develops a complex with the powers players.

Tell me what do you think about Martina ?

saby is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2002, 02:18 PM
Team WTAworld
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,376
                     
Well I'm not sure if it's as simple as that... maybe it is, and I'm just about to complicate it!

For one thing there are different kinds of power player. Although I would say all the following are power players, Monica (who Martina doesn't seem to have a problem with, let us say) is completely different player to Venus, as Venus is to Jennifer, as Jennifer is to Lindsay as Lindsay is to Serena etc.

Now if you want to add Daniela to the equation as a power player, therein you have a completely different player once again. Martina wasn't beaten by power yesterday. Daniela (as with all those previously mentioned) has great timing in addition to the power. Martina got herself into right pickle from the outset by not asking Daniela any questions at all.

Players who have power as a weapon, are always going to be at an advantage against those who do... no matter what the level of play.

I really think you have to give each 'big babe' their due, and treat them differently. So....

1) It's too early to say that Martina has a 'complex' with Hantuchova; they hadn't met before yesterday's match.

2) Lindsay Davenport. They're fairly even in recent contests, which I think Davenport leads 3-2.

3) Does Venus "own" Martina? I don't think so....They haven't played as often as one might think these past couple of years, and again, while you'd probably make Venus the favourite in any contest, the outcome is by no means a certainty.

4) Serena Williams. Not owning Martina either, from what I can see.

5) Capriati. Now then.... particularly after what went down in Melbourne, you could say that Martina has what we can call "issues" with Capriati. Seems like wherever they're meeting, Jennifer is coming prepared, and knows too much. Jennifer's hitting shots on the run (with "interest") better than anyone.

Martina's game is less and less about dominating play (has it ever been, I think so... but that's perhaps debatable), but how Martina can casually toss in a 6-3 6-2 win over Monica (no slouch, obviously), then just wait on the baseline (for what is a mystery) against Hantuchova are the questions which puzzle/worry me.

This isn't to deny that - like I metioned - power players will always be there asking Martina certain questions.... but I think that they are not the same question, and her inability to win BIG MATCHES... isn't to do with Power. I think Martina can handle power expertly, it's what's in her mind to do with it that power. It's about her. Her, inside.

Maybe then, I've just agreed with you!

"Mentally prepare? Why? When you plan something it never works. It's simple: get in, drive car, see what happens."
thefreedesigner is offline  
post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2002, 02:39 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,501
                     
free - You used a great phrase "...got herself into right pickle from the outset by not asking Daniela any questions at all."

When it became clear plan A wasn't working, Martina didn't change tactics. No plan B. maybe she didn't figure she'd need it.

* She didn't ask Daniela to prove she could handle slice.
* She didn't drag Daniela into net and ask Daniela to tame her errant overheads. (And Daniela had a LOT oif trouble with overheads in that match.)
* She didn't kill all the pace and ask Daniela if she could hit winners generating her own pace.

NOTE: One sort of interesting thing is Daniela actually has a particularly anti-Hingis quality to her backhand. She hit winners yesterday down the line by hammering the ball, and by blocking the ball back. She uses so little backswing when she blocks balls back from the baseline, Martina wasn't anticipitating where the shot would go. I'm sure Martina willl learn to read Daniela's swing, but there were times yesterday she clearly didn't know where the ball was going til after Daniela hit it. That's the normal situation for most players of course, but not for Martina.
Volcana is offline  
post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2002, 03:15 PM
Team WTAworld
Senior Member
 
~*Alma*~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: dreaming
Posts: 7,269
                     
They have only met one time, so I'm also positive Marti will learn to read daniela's swings.
Marti usualy reads the ball very well, but it looked like she had lots of trouble with that against D.
Maybe she just didn't had her day, or she wasn;t feeling that well. But I think D just played really good!!
Too bad for Marti, but next time she will do better!!!

Ж©Ω¥ΘΨ


The cowie is back...



Ж©Ω¥ΘΨ
~*Alma*~ is offline  
post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2002, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
Team WTAworld
Senior Member
 
saby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: France
Posts: 3,302
                     
I asked you this question because it seems to me that she is more fragile than before, maybe it is that the other players know her better and better and know how play her. I always think about OA finale this year, she was so close to win it.

It is true that against Monica she has no problem and the other players of this types (Venus, Jenn......) she wins once on two on average.

How a player like her, who is so intelligent and who knows how to manipulate the ball can let others players do whatever they want to do with her sometimes and why doesn't she change her tactics when she is in trouble, before she did not need to do it now it is almost indispensable.

For the French, she better be ready mentaly cause she will have to play against players and the public, it will be hard if she's not at 100%.

saby is offline  
post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2002, 05:03 PM
Senior Member
 
TSequoia01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,566
                     
No it is not a complex and yes she cannot handle the power of the big babes. Lindsay, Venus, Serena, and Capriati can and will dominate Martina. Going back 3, 4, and 5 years to generate statistics will not explain what is going on today. These power players have evolved their games to a point that Hingis just flat out cannot deal with them. Now that is the plain truth. So adding in statistics of the past to what is happening in the present only clouds the waters of why she loses.

PS Now you can add in Daniela, as for Seles, she just cannot hit on the move. So Hingis moves her around.

Beat'em down Ms Williams, beat'em down!
SERENA PRINCESS OF POWER

Victoria Duval - coming to a slam near you
Françoise Abanda definitely a future #1 --- Taylor Townsend devastation on the march
Venus and Serena ferocious grannies --- Kimiko Date Krumm great granny still doing her thing.
TSequoia01 is offline  
post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2002, 05:07 PM
Team WTAworld
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,376
                     
TSequoia01: You go check the statistics and look at Martina's last five performances against the 'big babes'.... aside from Jen, Martina is winning her fair share.

You expect Martina to win every one of those matches. I'm sure (though not certain) that if you compare results between so-called 'big babes' they'd be pretty similar, the fact is that because Martina isn't one of them, her results against power are always going to be scrutinised more than one of the power merchants themselves.

I honestly don't think Martina has a problem (a 'big' problem) in dealing with the power these women have. Sure they pose problems because they are all great players, and their power is a part of that, but it's in how she comes to play them, and what she's bringing from her own table that is causing her problems.

"Mentally prepare? Why? When you plan something it never works. It's simple: get in, drive car, see what happens."
thefreedesigner is offline  
post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2002, 05:27 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: the sexy side of the colo
Posts: 3,402
                     
Of course, Hingis has a complex when playing against power. After all, power is what knocked her off the top spot. Dealing with power should be Priority #1 on her list.
Bright Red is offline  
post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2002, 05:55 PM
Team WTAworld
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,376
                     
Bright Red, and others: Do you really think it's the power that's beating her? I'm not so sure.

In one sense it is... as I've mentioned, it's an obvious advantage that they can just rip a ball past her at will when things get heavy, or even when things aren't heavy!

Martina can and does beat her fair share of the Williams', Davenport's and (well sorta) Capriati's, but she's not winning those matches when it matters most: In the slams.

Is it just power?

"Mentally prepare? Why? When you plan something it never works. It's simple: get in, drive car, see what happens."
thefreedesigner is offline  
post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2002, 06:17 PM
Senior Member
 
TSequoia01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,566
                     
thefreedesigner I did what you asked kinda. I looked up Marti's record against the powerplayers Venus, Jen, Lindsay, and Serena for the past year beginning with 2001. Martina is 0-4 against Capriati, 1-2 against Lindsay (one loss was an injury retirement), she is 2-2 against Serena, and she is 1-1 against Venus. But what jumped out at me was she has lost the last match against all of them, the last two against Lindsay and Serena. Your point is well taken though, it is not like she has not beaten them, well all except Capriati. But to lose you last encounter to each of them is quite telling, and now another power player has defeated her, this to me is not mental. There was a time when she seldom lost to these types of players. It is now becoming common place or even expected. To say it is mental, kind of says she can do something to turn these losses around by attitude alone. While I do think she will have her days, they will be few and far between. The game is evolving and changing, she is not changing fast enough with it.

Beat'em down Ms Williams, beat'em down!
SERENA PRINCESS OF POWER

Victoria Duval - coming to a slam near you
Françoise Abanda definitely a future #1 --- Taylor Townsend devastation on the march
Venus and Serena ferocious grannies --- Kimiko Date Krumm great granny still doing her thing.
TSequoia01 is offline  
post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2002, 07:47 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Gaborone
Posts: 955
                     
Free, you are spot on when you say Martina did not ask Daniella any questions.
Last year on the sanex board, I said that Martina should be looking to put doubt in power players. Power players after all have and are making Martina doubt her own game. Martina has the game to beat any player, power or not. She has her own weapons, and I am not particularly sure why she feels she does not need to bring them on to the battle field.
Part of it was that Martina used to routinely beat these players without having to do anything special. A combination of nerves and risky play would almost always guarantee a power player would implode, but not anymore. So what has happend imo is that the more Martina loses, the more she loses her edge. No one is afraid to play her anymore. She needs to make these women doubt their own games.
After starting the season reasonably well, she seems to be headed in last year's direction.
If Martina is as smart as everybody has been saying, perhaps now is the time to do that by making the necessary adjustments.

Take care of your character. Reputation will sort itself.
oddkayla is offline  
post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2002, 08:00 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Gaborone
Posts: 955
                     
Some things were very telling in this last match. When The final started, Martina was smiling and just happy go lucky. Even when Daniella won a point, Martina was still smiling. When she was trailing, and Daniela was asserting herself, Martina lost the joke, and started to go from the frustrated look on her face, to the scared look.
And therein lies the problem. Martina still expects people to fold or choke against her. In her press conference before the final, she made a reference to Daniela's lack of experience in finals. Did she think she would have it easy because her opponent, being in an unfamiliar situation would be a basket case?
Should she be concerned about those things at this point? In order to fix her problems, she needs to focus on the game that scares opponents. Psych out opponents with her game, not perception.

Take care of your character. Reputation will sort itself.
oddkayla is offline  
post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2002, 08:16 PM
Senior Member
 
Dawn Marie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: North by Northwest
Posts: 15,171
                     
I think Martina is playing well. She has alot of trouble with the big hitters but overall her game is still tops. Martina is not going to beat everyone all the time. Sure Martina has good anticipation and weapons but so do many other players. Now you all can go on and think that Martina should have won and all, but I think Daniela has too many weapons for Hingis. Hingis tried to come to net Dani passed her. Hingis tried to serve volley Dani passed her. Also a major key to this match was the Hingis serve. And Daniela return. Dani owned it. She put pressure on Hingis's first serves so that Hingis had to hit a second serve. And what happened? Daniela crushed it. Hingis is a talented player but what I saw last night was a player who dismanteled her opponents weaknesses. Daniela beat Hingis the exact same way that Hingis beats her opponents.

You win some and you lose some. I am waiting on a rematch already.. NOW that should be exxciting.

Only after the last tree has been cut down
Only after the last river has been poisoned
Only after the last fish has been caught
Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten. "Cree Native American Prophecy"
Dawn Marie is offline  
post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2002, 09:29 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 600
 
"Power" has nothing to do with it, because everybody is a power player in women's tennis these days, except a few Spanish players and Coetzer. The whole top twenty relies on "power", and Hingis is having the best season of anyone so far, so I wouldn't say she can't handle anyone. When she lost to Serena and Jen this year, she really should have won. For obvious reasons against Jen, and against Serena she played pathetic, defensive, horrendous tennis. But yesterday, she played good. She moved to net, hit dropshots, played fairly aggressive, and moved well. Her serve wasn't THAT bad. The 'problem' was she was playing someone who was hitting everything she hit but better. I've never seen Venus beat Martina like that. The problem for Martina wasn't "power", it was the fact that on that day, the player on the other side of the net was playing better, more accurate tennis.

Give it a rest. Lindsay's recent losses have been against Kim, Serena and Venus. Serena has been losing against Jen and Venus. Venus lost to Shaughnessy, Shcett, Henin, Seles, and Testud recently. The are ALL power players, but where is the "is Venus/Jen/Lindsay/Serena struggling with power players"? Face it, you're going to have to lose against someone, and when 90% of the players are power players, it's those you're going to lose to.
RockSteady is offline  
post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 2002, 09:43 PM
Senior Member
 
barmaid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,590
                     
Thumbs up

Rocksteady, I agree with your post and I wish Martina would engrave on her forehead her quote from long ago that you use.."Do you want to serve first or do you want me to break you"...she really needs to apply more positiveness to her game...and even if she repeats that quote a couple of times on the court, it will definitely help her Hopefully


barmaid
barmaid is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Image Verification
Please enter the six letters or digits that appear in the image opposite.

Registration Image

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome