(Objectively) Did Martina Hingis have a bad year in 2002? - TennisForum.com

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 2001, 03:15 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,671
                     
Post (Objectively) Did Martina Hingis have a bad year in 2002?

Martina Hingis had a worse year in 2001 than in 1997.

True. In fact, it was her worst year in five years. However, I would like to lay to rest two common mis-perception.

Mis-perception #1) Martina Hingis had a bad year.

Against any OBJECTIVE standard she had a GREAT year. She made the SEMI-finals or better in 3 GS tournamens. Only Jenn and Venus did as well.<br />The Big Girls take up 3 of the 4 available sports in GS semis. Venus, Lindsay and Jenn took up 9 of the available 16 spots in the semis this year. Martina got three of the remaining seven. That's significant. Excpeting VEnus and Jenn, Martina outcompeted the rest of top ten in the Slams.

OZ RG WB US name <br />** ** ** ** ****<br />CH CH SF SF Capriati<br />SF 1r CH CH Willaims, V

FN SF 1r SF Hingis

SF -- SF QF Davenport<br />4r SF FN 4r Henin

QF QF QF FN Williams, S<br />4r FN QF QF Clijsters

She won three tournaments (Two Tioer II's).<br />She ended the year in the top five for the fifth consecutive year.

Mis-perception #2) Martina Hingis owes her ranking to playing a lot of tournaments.

Martina only played 18 tournaments. One over the minimum. And yes, players ranked behind her played less. But not enough less. Clijsters, Henin and Dokic obviously don't count, since they played more tournaments than Martina. That leaves three players ranked below Martina with fewer tournaments. Even taking the liberal assessment reasonable, ad assuming each player wins at the rate they were winning before, Martina only drops to #5.

*******fake real<br />5100 = 2100 + 3004 Serena Williams - (300 points/Tournament. Add Seven tounaments.)<br />3944 = 0000 + 3944 Martina Hingis<br />2937 = 0172 + 2765 Amelie Mauresmo (172 points/Tournament. Add One tournament.)<br />2801 = 0495 + 2306 Monica Seles (165 points/Tournament. Add Thee tournament.)

Martina's ranking is the result of playing well, not playing a lot.

[ December 13, 2001: Message edited by: Volcana ]</p>

Proud to be an American
Not blind. Not uninformed. We are party to atrocities. But the response of the world after 9/11 is worth noting. Even our most dire enemies offered aid. We should all be so lucky.
Volcana is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 2001, 03:24 PM
Team WTAworld
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,376
                     
Post

[quote] She made the finals or better in 3 GS tournamens... <hr></blockquote>

Did she? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

"Mentally prepare? Why? When you plan something it never works. It's simple: get in, drive car, see what happens."
thefreedesigner is offline  
post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 2001, 03:29 PM
Team WTAworld
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,376
                     
Post

... I don't mean to sound 'glib', but based on the talent she showed us in 1997 particularly, she's underachieving.

Meghann Shaughnessy would probably kill her grandmother for the year that Martina had in 2001, MS and MH are in 2 completely different worlds when it comes to talent with a raquet.

"Mentally prepare? Why? When you plan something it never works. It's simple: get in, drive car, see what happens."
thefreedesigner is offline  
post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 2001, 03:37 PM
Senior Member
 
saki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: merely in delusional land
Posts: 6,289
                     
Post

It's not her results that make people say that she's doing badly. Clijsters & Henin have done worse overall in both slams and other tournaments but are being touted as the best up and coming players. And therein lies the crucial point - Clijsters & Henin are up and coming players, Hingis is on her way down and has been since 1999.

Yes, she has indeed done well in Slams, but she hasn't done well against particular players. She can't seem to beat Venus, Serena, Jen, Lindsay any more.
saki is offline  
post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 2001, 03:54 PM
Veelieve!!!
 
Infiniti2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 27,816
 
Post

For someone who is constantly being touted as the most talented player on the tour, HECK YEAH!!!<br />Talent isn't a theory; it's on-court results, and "WE" all know that "this" talent hasn't been on display in quite some time....

Martina Hingis was the #1 player is the world, so I expected her to play as such... Getting to the ¼s or semis of every tournament was just not good enough by her own standards. She is the most talented player yet she hasn't gotten past a top 10 player in who knows how long...<br /> <br />It doesn't make sense to think that things will change anytime soon, considering she hasn't been able to win when she was expected... <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[ December 13, 2001: Message edited by: Infiniti2001 ]</p>

Infiniti2001 is offline  
post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 2001, 04:05 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Middle Earth
Posts: 1,011
                     
Post

Sorry, but by her standards she had a horrible year.

Since the AO, her only important victory was against Mauresmo in Charleston; she lost to Seles for the first time since 1998, to SV for the first time since 1996, lost in the 1rd of Wimbledon (and this time was different to 1999). She sticked to the number 1 because she was almost unbeatable from US'00 'till February, and gained a lot of points in that period.

Surely most people would be happy with her year, but I don't think Martina is. And as a matter of fact, this is the way she has to be to feel motivated to work.
Gandalf is offline  
post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 2001, 04:19 PM
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 27,279
 
Angry

Grand slams are four tournaments out of 18 that she played, what about the rest ?

Yes she had a bad year - she won ten titles in 2000, including tier ones.

This year she had losses to Clijsters, Capriati, Seles, Mauresmo and several other players you would have thought she ought to have beaten (of course, in Monica's case I am not complaining <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> ).

She lost the no.1 ranking.

By her previous years, she had a bad year and those are really the only standards we can judge her by - otherwise the rest of the tour outside the top ten must have had a TERRIBLE year !!!
Kart is offline  
post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 2001, 04:20 PM
Senior Member
 
TSequoia01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,565
                     
Post

Yes she had a bad year. But I wish she has a good recovery and becomes competitive once again. She adds a certain flavor to the wta that would really be missed if she were not. Even though she had a bad year for a #1 player, it may not be bad for a #5 player. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

Beat'em down Ms Williams, beat'em down!
SERENA PRINCESS OF POWER

Victoria Duval - coming to a slam near you
Françoise Abanda definitely a future #1 --- Taylor Townsend devastation on the march
Venus and Serena ferocious grannies --- Kimiko Date Krumm great granny still doing her thing.
TSequoia01 is offline  
post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 2001, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,671
                     
Post

That's my point exactly. Sure by her OWN standards she had a poor year. But by OBJECTIVE standards, she had a pretty good one. Certainly better than the people she's ranked ahead of. In any year where two players split the Slams, how good a year can the other players have? (introduciiinnnggg.. Lindsay Davenport!)

If she in the semis 3 out of 4 Slams for the next couple years, she'll win a few.

And I'm not sure you can accurately say a 21 year old is already 'on her way down'. Certainly there's no objective reason to assume Martina won't improve, while the competion will.

<br />thefreedesigner - That should have been '3 GS SEMI-finals ....' of course <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Proud to be an American
Not blind. Not uninformed. We are party to atrocities. But the response of the world after 9/11 is worth noting. Even our most dire enemies offered aid. We should all be so lucky.
Volcana is offline  
post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 2001, 04:40 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,671
                     
Post

And to answer my original question, so far Martina has had a great 2002! <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Proud to be an American
Not blind. Not uninformed. We are party to atrocities. But the response of the world after 9/11 is worth noting. Even our most dire enemies offered aid. We should all be so lucky.
Volcana is offline  
post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 2001, 04:49 PM
Senior Member
 
Crazy Canuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Munchkin Land
Posts: 28,511
                     
Post

"She can't seem to beat Venus, Serena, Jen, Lindsay any more."

Granted in the latter half of the year, she didn't beat any of these players.<br />But overall her head to heads this year against the, were not too shabby.<br />1-1 against Venus, 2-1 against Serena, and 1-1 again Lindsay (I'm not actualyl sure about that one).

The only one she couldn't beat this year was Jenn.
Crazy Canuck is offline  
post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 2001, 06:26 PM
Moderator - BFTP
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 21,432
                     
Post

Count me in with thefreedsigner(loved the "grandmother bit Fred <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> , sk, and Gandulf. For a regular grunt Martina's year was great, for one of the best ever it was a disaster.

I'm a big believer in the power of a single match to turn around a season or even a career. The Hingis-Venus match at the US Open was a glorious <br />display of tennis. Despite losing, I felt that Hingis had turned a corner. Fit, confident, tearing up the fall. Beating both Williams sisters in Australia was heady stuff, she must have thought she was back on track until the final. After that, all the air went out of the balloon. The Hingis I saw lose to at the French and the US Open was going through the motions. Australia, her best slam, is big chance for her to turn it around again.


Visit us at the Blast From The Past: Where Tennis History Lives!

http://www.tennisforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=59
Rollo is offline  
post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 2001, 06:44 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: sailing my ship
Posts: 3,626
                     
Post

I have to agree with most posters here. Hingis, by her standards, had a horrible year this year. She did not win a tier 1 event, lost in the first round of Wimbledon to a clay court player, lost to players she normally dominated. Martina started the year so brilliantly. I think her loss to Capriati at the OZ, after winning the Hopman Cup beating Seles, the Sydney International beating S. Williams and Davenport and then brilliantly defeating both Williams sisters in the OZ on the way to the final, had to devastate her.

If you are looking @ Martina's 01 stats in terms of an up and coming player (Clijsters, Henin, Dokic) or a journeywoman (Maleeva, Farina-Elia) on the tour, then yes, she had a great year. But you are talking about a player who has been no. 1 for almost three years and who has defeated the top players to win 5 grand slams and won almost every tier 1 event on the tour. If you compare the Martina of this year to the Martina of 97 or even the Martina of 01, then by those standards, Hingis had a terrible year. Hopefully, she will heal from her injury and make a great comeback.
apoet29 is offline  
post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 2001, 06:49 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Delaware
Posts: 186
                     
Post

Becca, I think she's 1-2 against Lindsay. I'm not sure myself about that one either, lol. But I know she beat her in Sydney then had two losses in Tokyo and when she sprained her ankle. Unfortunately we don't know if she actually would have won, but it's counted as a loss nonetheless.

Anyway considering that she was #1 player in the world, didn't win a tournament since February, didn't win a GS, and hasn't defeated a top ten player since the beginning of the year. Yeah I'd say she had a bad year. But only a bad year. I don't think one bad year out of 6 or 7 is an implication that she's going down. We'll have to wait until next year to see how she does. If her year in 2002 is similiar to 2001 then I might have my doubt about her future, but until then she should still be respected as a dangerous top player.

It is best to keep your mouth shut and be presumed ignorant. Then to open it and remove all doubt.
QueenV is offline  
post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 2001, 06:58 PM
Moderator - BFTP
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 21,432
                     
Post

Only a fool would say Martina's down and out for good. She's still so young.


Visit us at the Blast From The Past: Where Tennis History Lives!

http://www.tennisforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=59
Rollo is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome