#1 Tournament FINALS! Graf vs. Navratilova - TennisForum.com
View Poll Results: Who's Better in the matchup? The Finals!
Steffi - She won those critical matchups while Martina was still in her prime! 96 52.17%
Martina - She won many critical matchups NOT in her prime 88 47.83%
Voters: 184. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 152 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2004, 12:19 AM Thread Starter
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#1 Tournament FINALS! Graf vs. Navratilova

We all knew it would come to this, well, maybe we all didn't, but I'm not shocked. Here's a reminder of how we got here:
Graf def. BYE
Davenport def. Austin
Seles def. Clijsters
Hingis def. V. Williams
Evert def. BYE
S. Williams def. Sanchez-Vicario
Henin-Hardenne def. Capriati
Navratilova def. BYE

led to:
Graf def. Davenport
Seles def. Hingis
Evert def. S. Williams
Navratilova def. Henin-Hardenne

to the semis:
Graf def. Seles
Navratilova def. Evert

to the finals
Graf vs. Navratilova

H2H is 9-9!!! dead even...YES! should be a good good battle, remember we're using that one career defining matchup between the two to gauge, otherwise comparison of peak qualities, majors, eras, etc. to determine the winner here. This is the finals!! Vote and post to make sure others vote for who you think should win! ok, here is a full list of the H2H, making Steffi in Green and Martina in Orange

1985-08-26 U.S. Open Hardcourt SF Martina Navratilova (USA) 6-2 6-3
1985-09-30 Fort Lauderdale Hardcourt F Martina Navratilova (USA) 6-3 6-1
1986-03-17 Virginia Slims Championships Indoor Carpet SF Martina Navratilova (USA) 6-2 6-2

1986-05-12 Berlin Clay F Steffi Graf (GER) 6-2 6-3
1986-08-25 U.S. Open Hardcourt SF Martina Navratilova (USA) 6-1 6-7 7-6
1986-11-17 Virginia Slims Championships Indoor Carpet F Martina Navratilova (USA) 7-6 6-3 6-2

1987-02-23 Key Biscayne Hardcourt SF Steffi Graf (GER) 6-3 6-2
1987-05-25 Roland Garros Clay F Steffi Graf (GER) 6-4 4-6 8-6

1987-06-22 Wimbledon Grass F Martina Navratilova (USA) 7-5 6-3
1987-08-31 U.S. Open Hardcourt F Martina Navratilova (USA) 7-6 6-1

1988-06-22 Wimbledon Grass F Steffi Graf (GER) 5-7 6-2 6-1
1989-06-26 Wimbledon Grass F Steffi Graf (GER) 6-2 6-7 6-1
1989-08-28 U.S. Open Hardcourt F Steffi Graf (GER) 3-6 7-5 6-1
1989-11-13 Virginia Slims Championships Indoor Carpet F Steffi Graf (GER) 6-4 7-5 2-6 6-2

1991-08-26 U.S. Open Hardcourt SF Martina Navratilova (USA) 7-6 6-7 6-4
1992-10-05 Zurich Indoor Carpet F Steffi Graf (GER) 2-6 7-5 7-5
1993-02-01 Tokyo Indoor Carpet SF Martina Navratilova (USA) 4-6 6-3 6-3
1994-01-31 Tokyo Indoor Carpet F Steffi Graf (GER) 6-2 6-4
Tied 9:9
Hard: Martina Navratilova (USA) leads 5:2
Clay: Steffi Graf (GER) leads 2:0
Grass: Steffi Graf (GER) leads 2:1
Indoor: Tied 3:3

Ok, good luck guys, it'll take me awhile to sort this out too!

It will always be Arantxa, hall of famer! and martina hingis and kim clijsters - amazing legends
ana ivanovic and the italian girls, especially pennetta (forza azzurre! RG CHAMP FRANCESCA AND FINALIST SARA!)
aga, vika, sam, na in the next tier
NEVER say "I don't care who wins, I just want good tennis"
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post #2 of 152 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2004, 12:20 AM
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i am going with GRAF!
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post #3 of 152 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2004, 12:23 AM
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I'm going with Navvy here.

Women's tennis sucks.
~


Go Rafa.

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post #4 of 152 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2004, 12:29 AM
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Could have predicted this final before, wherefore do we need all this discussion?

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Originally Posted by Avid Merrion
lol Alex, you're so goddamn demanding


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post #5 of 152 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2004, 12:30 AM Thread Starter
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wow, everything was a semi or final, martina won 1 more set overall, 9 matches apiece, unbelievable! i've seen tapes of the 86 US semi, and that was a GREAT match, but steffi was nowhere near her peak, it was like how hingis was not great in 96 and then just exploded in 97, Steffi was RIGHT near her explosion on the scene, but not there yet, so i don't want to pick that match as the "Definitive", WOW other than Ft Lauderdale, they were all Tier 1 or better too! what an awesome rivalry, and it never seems that huge in retrospect (at least based on what i hear), so unbelievably even! alright, i'm jsut going to go the VS finals of 89, because for two player where fitness was always key for them, a 4 set match showed steffi's fitness was slightly better, their games matched up perfectly, any surface could yield any champion (even clay! that 87 french could have gone either way for sure), and it is just an awesome matchup, however, i'm going steffi here, and you can make a case for just about ANY of the 18 H2H you want for this...

It will always be Arantxa, hall of famer! and martina hingis and kim clijsters - amazing legends
ana ivanovic and the italian girls, especially pennetta (forza azzurre! RG CHAMP FRANCESCA AND FINALIST SARA!)
aga, vika, sam, na in the next tier
NEVER say "I don't care who wins, I just want good tennis"
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post #6 of 152 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2004, 12:46 AM
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I have to say that the fact that Martina beat her as a 36 year old proves she was truly the greatest
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post #7 of 152 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2004, 12:59 AM
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Martina is the greatest (in my opinion) all around player in history, She has 167 Singles title...to Grafs 107 titles, has almost 180 doubles titles...and at least the same amount of mixed doubles titles.

Graff is no doubt the top womens single player, winner an outstanding 22 slams, however Navratilova is in a league of her own, im sorry, its true.

Navratilova, no matter what, is the single greatest achiever, title wise, of any player, man or women, in tennis history.

Navratilova is still hitting balls back to girls 20 years he junior, and holding her own, shes a grand slam champion in her late 40's and shes a threat at the olympics this year and in the Us Open coming up.....

This, THIS feat alone got my vote to go to Navratilova, shes a champion who knows no bounds, defies age and truely is THE GREATEST CHAMPION TENNIS PLAYER.

Graff may win this , but if i am correct everyone will se that Martinas accomplishments far outshine Graff, simply because Martina has shown dominance and championship form for 4 decades, always coming out a champion.

Martina, LONG LIVE THE QUEEN!
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post #8 of 152 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2004, 01:53 AM
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Theres not much doubt Graf will win this due to the average age of posters on this website...

But there isnt really much to discuss - Martina went 2-2 with GRAF from the age of 35-38...and in the Zurich loss in 91 Martina choked that match away and really should have a 3-1 record over Graf in their last 4 victories.

Martina's game matched up against Graf well, and had it not been for nerves Martina also would have won the 87 French FInal and the 89 Us Open final - both matches that Martina choked away after serving for the match..

As it is, even choking a few matches away Martina still finished equal - considering the majority of their matches were played AFTER the age Graf retired at, Martina competing equally with Graf, it really reflects well on Martina..

Graf got the upperhand in the head to head during the late 80's, (when Martina was burnt out - hey if Graf fans want to use excsuses to explain away every loss she ever had so can I!!! lol)....but once Martina rejuvenated herself, she went 2-2 with Graf in the last few years WAY PAST HER PEAK whilst Graf was at her peak....

Steffi will win the popularity contest - also beccause she has done the 'right' thing and retired and had babies and shut her mouth - whereas Martina still is outspoken - she wont win this popularity contest but who really cares?
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post #9 of 152 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2004, 02:13 AM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Czechfan
Theres not much doubt Graf will win this due to the average age of posters on this website...

But there isnt really much to discuss - Martina went 2-2 with GRAF from the age of 35-38...and in the Zurich loss in 91 Martina choked that match away and really should have a 3-1 record over Graf in their last 4 victories.

Martina's game matched up against Graf well, and had it not been for nerves Martina also would have won the 87 French FInal and the 89 Us Open final - both matches that Martina choked away after serving for the match..

As it is, even choking a few matches away Martina still finished equal - considering the majority of their matches were played AFTER the age Graf retired at, Martina competing equally with Graf, it really reflects well on Martina..

Graf got the upperhand in the head to head during the late 80's, (when Martina was burnt out - hey if Graf fans want to use excsuses to explain away every loss she ever had so can I!!! lol)....but once Martina rejuvenated herself, she went 2-2 with Graf in the last few years WAY PAST HER PEAK whilst Graf was at her peak....

Steffi will win the popularity contest - also beccause she has done the 'right' thing and retired and had babies and shut her mouth - whereas Martina still is outspoken - she wont win this popularity contest but who really cares?
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post #10 of 152 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2004, 02:41 AM
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I agree that Martina will probably lose to Gunther and his gang in this, but Martina Nav is clearly the greatest tennis player of all time. She has almost as many Wimbledon titles as Graf has grand slam titles, which in and of itself should give you an idea as to how much better Martina is than Steffi. Also, we must remember that Steffi had no rival in her prime, wheras Martina had Chrissy. As Evert so blatantly put it (and you can reverse this so it works,) "If Martina had been stabbed in the early eighties, I would have won a lot more slams too."

Romney/Ryan 2012
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post #11 of 152 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2004, 02:43 AM
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I voted for Nav... but both are just
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post #12 of 152 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2004, 04:42 AM
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navratilova better win this
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post #13 of 152 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2004, 04:43 AM
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Steffi hands down. 22 Grand Slams says it all.
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post #14 of 152 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2004, 04:45 AM
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um nav better win...
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post #15 of 152 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 2004, 05:16 AM
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Martina N . Even if it were Monica v/s Martina i'd vote for her because she is amazing
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