Should "transgendered" athletes be allowed in professional sports? - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 44 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2004, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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Should "transgendered" athletes be allowed in professional sports?

Well, the IOC has decided that athletes that have completed sex change operations can participate in the Olympics providing they have completed two years of post-surgical hormonal therapy. There is already a female (previously male) mountain bike racer suing to be allowed to compete. I know that Renee Richards played the WTA in this way. However, Richards was relatively "old" when he had his sex change. That probably had more to do with his lack of success than anything else.

I think this is unfair. I believe female athletes that were previously male retain enough additional muscle mass and a different type of muscle distribution that gives them an advantage. Also, male athletes that were previously female must be allowed to take testosterone. Who gets to decide how much is the right amount? Does it confer an athletic advantage over other men? --------------------
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post #2 of 44 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2004, 10:28 PM
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I think they should be allowed.I disagree that Richards didn't do as well because she was older...probably had more to do with being mediocre,or that the women were better!!The only situation I can see where male-female athlete switch would be an advantage for the previously male athlete,is if he were a top player when was male...say if Agassi decided to get a sex change and wanted to play on the WTA tour.Imo, he would definately have an advantage.
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post #3 of 44 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2004, 10:30 PM
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should be allowed
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post #4 of 44 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2004, 10:54 PM
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Sure, why not. If a transgendered person is no longer the sex they were born, but the other sex now; how can you stop them? If a woman who was born as a man no longer has any male sexual parts, then how can you say they are still a man?

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post #5 of 44 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2004, 10:54 PM
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I cant really see a problme with it , but I doubt that they would be able to have much success due to the fact of how much time it takes to go through the change. A full sex change opp, with hormones etc. can take 4 years at least, and I with the medication that they have to take as well as the mental aspects of what they are going through, I dont think they would be able to play going through that phase, leaving them too old by the end of it (cos its very rare, though I know some 13 year old in Aus managed it, to get a sex change before your 20).

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post #6 of 44 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2004, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squawk box
I disagree that Richards didn't do as well because she was older...probably had more to do with being mediocre,or that the women were better!!The only situation I can see where male-female athlete switch would be an advantage for the previously male athlete,is if he were a top player when was male...say if Agassi decided to get a sex change and wanted to play on the WTA tour.Imo, he would definately have an advantage.
You're seriously underestimating the physical disparity between men and women vis-a-vis tennis.

Richard Raskind was a champion on the amateur circuit in the pre-Open era. He was born in 1934. He played both the US Open and Wimbledon, standing about 6'2, 180 lbs. She started playing on the women's tour in 1977, at the age of 43. She made it into the top fifty.

Martina Navratilova managed to win a match at 44. ONE match. Renne Richards made the top fifty. That is to say, Renne Richards was a LOT better than the best ever at the equivalent age. Age had EVERYTHING to do with Renee Richards only being a top fifty player. Suppose he'd had that sex change at 21?

Imagine a 6'2" man who was good enough to play the US Open and Wimbledon today on the women's tour. Even with the reduced muscularity of hormone therapy, that's a bit of a joke. Where would Guillermo Coria or Lleyton Hewitt, neither paragons of muscularity, rank on the women's tour today? The first men's Division I college player to have a sex change is his twenties will make #1.

Ultimately, it may require a completely seprate category for transgendered athletes, even as their are seperate categories for biological females.

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post #7 of 44 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2004, 11:44 PM
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it would never work. males going to play wta tournaments would still be too strong. volcana is 100% right.

ugh, why do they all suck????????
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post #8 of 44 (permalink) Old May 19th, 2004, 12:11 AM
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I'm normally strong on rights for gay, lesbian, transgendered etc, etc, people, but I do have a problem with this. For the reasons given by Volcana, it tends to defeat the purpose of having a separate competition for women, as opposed to open competition with the men (a competition in which only the top five or so WTA players would even be able to win an occasional ATP match...if even they could...and similar considerations would apply in most other sports).

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post #9 of 44 (permalink) Old May 19th, 2004, 12:17 AM
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Volcana Posted
Quote:
Richard Raskind was a champion on the amateur circuit in the pre-Open era. He was born in 1934. He played both the US Open and Wimbledon, standing about 6'2, 180 lbs. She started playing on the women's tour in 1977, at the age of 43. She made it into the top fifty.
Thanks for the info on Richards.I thought she was younger when she started playing on the tour.
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post #10 of 44 (permalink) Old May 19th, 2004, 12:20 AM
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Well, we may find out how well a transgendered person will do on either tour one day. But since their haven't been enough female vs. male matches, I don't think you can convincingly say anything is a scientific fact. Based on the law of averages, it seems unlikely that the average woman could beat the average male. But there are certain indivisuals that are above average and could possibly pull it off. Billie (a woman) did beat Bobby (a man, an older man, but a man non the less). Never say never.

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post #11 of 44 (permalink) Old May 19th, 2004, 12:32 AM
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Interesting article on the mountain biker suing to race on the cdn women's team:biker
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post #12 of 44 (permalink) Old May 19th, 2004, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamgoddess099
Well, we may find out how well a transgendered person will do on either tour one day.
We've already seen that. A male player who, at his very best, wasn't a top HUNDRED player, made the top fifty on the women's side at 44.

I don't think the IOC had a choice, and they are trying to be fair, but sooner or later, this is gonna blow up.

Par example, what if an athlete completes 'two years of post-surgical hormonal therapy', goes off homrones for a year to train, and goes back on right before the Olympic trials? (Olympic athletes already take things that can kill them, so this is not exactly far-fetched.) Or doesn't go back on at all, thus fulfilling 'the letter of the law'? Not to mention that a lot of performance enhancing drugs work differently on male physiology than female.

In fairness to the IOC, they are trying to do right by everyone, and in their position, I'd likely do the same thing. But the first time there's a transgendered female gold medalist in a strength sport, there either going to be a drop in particiaption of women in the sport, or a rise in the use of performance enhancing drugs.

Hmmmm... this is worth some research

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post #13 of 44 (permalink) Old May 19th, 2004, 01:23 AM
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Well, Amelie did win that match against Marat earlier this year.

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post #14 of 44 (permalink) Old May 19th, 2004, 01:27 AM
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...a man with his nads cut off isn't a woman...there's no surgery in the world that can make a man a woman...so the answer is no...
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post #15 of 44 (permalink) Old May 19th, 2004, 01:34 AM
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I see no problem with a transexual playing in wta events. If any man is competent enough to allow his reproductive organ to be cut off then he wasn't meant to be a man in the 1st place. I'm no doctor but I beleive losing your balls will negate any extra strenght a man would have over a woman.

I wish people in this world can just mind there own damb business and let people live the lives they want.
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