Wertheim´s best shots of all time - TennisForum.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old May 10th, 2004, 10:37 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 45,107
                     
Wertheim´s best shots of all time

Who on the women's side, do you think had the best: 1) forehand, 2) backhand, 3) serve, 4) volley? I think Steffi Graf had the best forehand.
-- Ryan Kersop, London

I hate these questions because no matter what you write they trigger the inevitable flood of "You're an idiot! The [insert shot] of [insert player X] is way better than that of [insert player Y.]" But, by gum, Ryan Kersop wants answers, and who are we to deprive him? Let's limit this to the past 25 years or so. You know, to stave off Alice Marble's rabid horde of fans. Here goes:

1) Forehand. I'll give you Steffi Graf.

2) Backhand: Chris Evert. I would give Hingis some high marks here too. Both may have lacked blitzing pace, but they could go entire sets without missing.

3) Serve: We run into the age-old "historical sensitivity" issue (what if Martina Navratilova had used a titanium racket in her prime, blah blah, blah), but I think you have to go with the Williams sisters. Venus circa 2001 or Serena circa 2002. We know we shouldn't conflate them, but we're doing it anyway.

4) Volley: Navratilova. Without a doubt.

5) Return: Monica Seles. Wonder if there's ever been another player who took the ball so early?

Good list but I´d say Serena´s serve in 2002 was better than Venus´s 01 serve.

Always bet on black!
Can you handle the truth?
The truth:
Serena Williams: Greatest African-American tennisplayer in history
22 majors:6376


Official Prince of the Royal Court
bandabou is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old May 10th, 2004, 10:42 PM
Senior Member
 
Dava's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Pau-Pau-Pau-Pau-La-La-La!
Posts: 17,733
                     
Serenas serve is way better then Venus', its not as fast but way more consistant both in terms of power and accuracy.

WTA TOUR
ELENA DEMENTIEVA
KIM CLIJSTERS
ALSO STARRING
THE GIRLS ON TOUR!

ASAGOE~BOVINA~JANKOVIC~MOLIK
MYSKINA~SCHNYDER~ZVONAREVA

THE YOUNG GUNS

BACSINSZKY~CHAKVATADZE~IVANOVIC
JACKSON~KIRILENKO~LINETSKAYA
MAKAROVA~MIRZA


THE COMEBACK KIDS

BEYGELZIMER~DOKIC~HARKLEROAD
SPREM~VAKULENKO

Dava is offline  
post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old May 10th, 2004, 11:17 PM
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Among The Greats
Posts: 40,061
                     
I think that Serena's serve was by far better that Venus'. Commentators (PAM) have long criticized Venus for her erratic service motion. And the category says: SERVE, not 1st or 2nd. That's why I totally think that Serena is better. She, WITHOUT DOUBT, QUESTION, OR DEBATE, has the BEST SECOND SERVE on tour. I also agree that Navratilova was the best volleyer in WTA history! Good list!

Career Grand Slam in your 20s? Been there done that. Career golden slam your 30s?
There's only 1.
Serena.
♛♛♛♛♛♛♛♛
[22]
MrSerenaWilliams is offline  
post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old May 10th, 2004, 11:20 PM
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Among The Greats
Posts: 40,061
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by bandabou
2) Backhand: Chris Evert. I would give Hingis some high marks here too. Both may have lacked blitzing pace, but they could go entire sets without missing.
I dunno, when Serena's backhand is on (French Open Quarterfinal '03, US Open Final '02, Wimbledon Final '02) She can go for miles without missing either.

Venus too!

Career Grand Slam in your 20s? Been there done that. Career golden slam your 30s?
There's only 1.
Serena.
♛♛♛♛♛♛♛♛
[22]
MrSerenaWilliams is offline  
post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old May 10th, 2004, 11:32 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 535
                     
The reason they say Venus's serve in 2001, was she was consitantly getting service winners off of her second serve and nobody could return her first. Serena's is more on precision, but when players are expecting an 80 mph kick serve and venus hits a 100 mph serve down the middle, you get more out of it than if you hit the corner.
VRULES is offline  
post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old May 10th, 2004, 11:51 PM
Senior Member
 
maximus82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Connecticut, US
Posts: 1,046
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrserenawilliams
I dunno, when Serena's backhand is on (French Open Quarterfinal '03, US Open Final '02, Wimbledon Final '02) She can go for miles without missing either.

Venus too!
Serena and Venus do have phenomenal, strong backhands...but I don't think I would agree that they have consistency like Evert (or, to a lesser extent, Hingis). Evert would win tournaments only making like 10 bh errors. So as far as consistency goes, she's the champ. Now if you want to argue that we should be looking at numbers of winners or something, that *might* be a different story.
maximus82 is offline  
post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old May 10th, 2004, 11:55 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 45,107
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by VRULES
The reason they say Venus's serve in 2001, was she was consitantly getting service winners off of her second serve and nobody could return her first. Serena's is more on precision, but when players are expecting an 80 mph kick serve and venus hits a 100 mph serve down the middle, you get more out of it than if you hit the corner.
But those df´s are killing..

Always bet on black!
Can you handle the truth?
The truth:
Serena Williams: Greatest African-American tennisplayer in history
22 majors:6376


Official Prince of the Royal Court
bandabou is offline  
post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old May 11th, 2004, 12:32 AM
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Among The Greats
Posts: 40,061
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximus82
Serena and Venus do have phenomenal, strong backhands...but I don't think I would agree that they have consistency like Evert (or, to a lesser extent, Hingis). Evert would win tournaments only making like 10 bh errors. So as far as consistency goes, she's the champ. Now if you want to argue that we should be looking at numbers of winners or something, that *might* be a different story.
In the end, aren't winners what win matches (although keeping the ue's down are extremely important too)?

Career Grand Slam in your 20s? Been there done that. Career golden slam your 30s?
There's only 1.
Serena.
♛♛♛♛♛♛♛♛
[22]
MrSerenaWilliams is offline  
post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old May 11th, 2004, 02:16 AM
Senior Member
 
maximus82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Connecticut, US
Posts: 1,046
                     
indeed hitting winners is key too, mrserenawilliams...being only 21, I didn't get to watch Evert play. Don't know whether she was just consistent or if she was both consistent and winner-producing off of her bh. But, still, the kind of consistency I've heard of Evert having is utterly remarkable!
maximus82 is offline  
post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old May 11th, 2004, 02:40 AM
Senior Member
 
SelesFan70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 11,028
                     
I think it was Ted Tingling who said that Evert's backhand was like a "flowing fountain"...and it was and still is (on tape!) a thing of beauty. I really think Chrissie doesn't get enough credit for playing percentage tennis, and doing it so well. She still has the highest career winning percentage at 0.903 (I think that's the number).

Anyways, that list is very fair as Weirtham usually is.

Tammy Bruce RightSideOfTheRainbow

Liberals: Hard on the unborn, soft on terrorists

Man-made climate change is a LIE

COUNTDOWN!
SelesFan70 is offline  
post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old May 11th, 2004, 02:43 AM
Senior Member
 
TSequoia01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,565
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximus82
indeed hitting winners is key too, mrserenawilliams...being only 21, I didn't get to watch Evert play. Don't know whether she was just consistent or if she was both consistent and winner-producing off of her bh. But, still, the kind of consistency I've heard of Evert having is utterly remarkable!
I watched Chris play and she was a heady player. They all were. But comparing Evert's backhand to say Henin or Mauresmo is like comparing a model T to a lamborghini. Both were great but not fair to pit one in a race against the other. Apples and oranges.

Beat'em down Ms Williams, beat'em down!
SERENA PRINCESS OF POWER

Victoria Duval - coming to a slam near you
Françoise Abanda definitely a future #1 --- Taylor Townsend devastation on the march
Venus and Serena ferocious grannies --- Kimiko Date Krumm great granny still doing her thing.
TSequoia01 is offline  
post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old May 11th, 2004, 05:23 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,059
                     
MisterQ is offline  
post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old May 11th, 2004, 05:33 AM
Team WTAworld
Senior Member
 
Venus Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: New York City
Posts: 11,233
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximus82
Serena and Venus do have phenomenal, strong backhands...but I don't think I would agree that they have consistency like Evert (or, to a lesser extent, Hingis). Evert would win tournaments only making like 10 bh errors. So as far as consistency goes, she's the champ. Now if you want to argue that we should be looking at numbers of winners or something, that *might* be a different story.
But then, Evert's backhand was not to blast winners with like Venus' is.

Venus uses her backhand to hit winners, not to massage the ball around the court.

Considering Venus' consistency with such a lethal shot, that backhand should rank up there as one of the best, if not the best.

QUEEN VEE


Good Luck: RENA, MATTEK, HAYNES, GULLICKSON, HARKLEROAD, RUBIN, GRANVILLE, LEE-WATERS, SCHNYDER, JACKSON, PERRY, KING, SUGIYAMA, PIERCE, TULYAGANOVA, IVANOVIC, KUZNETSOVA, MOLIK, DANIILIDOU, MEDINA GARRIGUES, PETROVA, PENNETTA, GOLOVIN, PEER, LI, SCHIAVONE, RAZZANO, ZVONAREVA, SPREM, SREBOTNIK, VINCI, & SAFINA
Venus Forever is offline  
post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old May 11th, 2004, 05:35 AM
Team WTAworld
Senior Member
 
Venus Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: New York City
Posts: 11,233
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by bandabou
But those df´s are killing..
The Venus of 2001 did not double fault like the Venus of now.

Her serve was a LOT more consistent, and more deadly. It was consistently in the 90 mph range.

The serves of Serena 2002 and Venus 2001 would make an unstoppable player, as evident by their dominance during those times.

QUEEN VEE


Good Luck: RENA, MATTEK, HAYNES, GULLICKSON, HARKLEROAD, RUBIN, GRANVILLE, LEE-WATERS, SCHNYDER, JACKSON, PERRY, KING, SUGIYAMA, PIERCE, TULYAGANOVA, IVANOVIC, KUZNETSOVA, MOLIK, DANIILIDOU, MEDINA GARRIGUES, PETROVA, PENNETTA, GOLOVIN, PEER, LI, SCHIAVONE, RAZZANO, ZVONAREVA, SPREM, SREBOTNIK, VINCI, & SAFINA
Venus Forever is offline  
post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old May 11th, 2004, 06:56 AM
Senior Member
 
maximus82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Connecticut, US
Posts: 1,046
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeNuS FoReVeR
But then, Evert's backhand was not to blast winners with like Venus' is.

Venus uses her backhand to hit winners, not to massage the ball around the court.

Considering Venus' consistency with such a lethal shot, that backhand should rank up there as one of the best, if not the best.
Hmm...I don't think you can say that Venus's consistency is even in the same league as Evert's on the bh. Evert's bh was her strongest shot and she relied heavily on it in accomplishing the following feats:
-the highest winning percentage in pro tennis history (.900)
-the best record on clay of any player for any single surface with a 125-match win streak
-From 1972-1989, was never ranked lower than the Top 4
-Won at least one Grand Slam title per year for 13 years, 1974-86

So while Venus's bh might be more lethal when it's on (as far as winners and power), Evert's bh was leagues more consistent and led her to a level of success that Venus has not had (at least not yet).
maximus82 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome