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post #1 of 45 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 10:12 PM Thread Starter
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Here's a thought

Ok, here's a thought that kinda bounce off that whole, "What makes Justine best on clay?" thread.

On clay, I think everyone can agree that there really is noone better than justine. if that's not a premise that you agree with then you don't need to continue. but if justine is best on clay (better than either williams) because on clay the williams' power is neutralized, then is it true that what makes the williams so hard to beat is really just their power? I mean if you take away the Williams power then what else do they really have going for them? I'm not trying to knock Venus or Serena, but if you look at that line of reasoning that Justine is the best on clay coz power is not an issue, but outside of clay, Justine is often third behind Venus and Serena because the power is sometimes too much then really Venus and Serena's games are very one dimensional.
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post #2 of 45 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 10:18 PM
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Justine is the best on clay, but not by much really. Both Venus and specially Serena have all the tools to be good on clay. The difference between them and Justine is that Justine is contend to go the rally, while specially Serena doesn´t have the patience for that. In ´02 she became more controlled and look what she did during the clay-season. same happened during RG´03...when she was patient, there wasn´t much Justine could do to hurt her.

And no it ain´t just the power, Lindsay has power, Monica has power, Bovina has power..it´s the total package. Defense, offense, great-serving,forehand, backhand all solid: specially for Serena. Really if you think about Serena´s the one player out there who´s got the least weaknesses.

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post #3 of 45 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shap_half
Ok, here's a thought that kinda bounce off that whole, "What makes Justine best on clay?" thread.

On clay, I think everyone can agree that there really is noone better than justine. if that's not a premise that you agree with then you don't need to continue. but if justine is best on clay (better than either williams) because on clay the williams' power is neutralized, then is it true that what makes the williams so hard to beat is really just their power? I mean if you take away the Williams power then what else do they really have going for them? I'm not trying to knock Venus or Serena, but if you look at that line of reasoning that Justine is the best on clay coz power is not an issue, but outside of clay, Justine is often third behind Venus and Serena because the power is sometimes too much then really Venus and Serena's games are very one dimensional.
True
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post #4 of 45 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 10:20 PM
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Movement and ability to slide into your shots is the key. Look at the great (multiple) RG Champs.... all fluid into their slides.
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post #5 of 45 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shap_half
Ok, here's a thought that kinda bounce off that whole, "What makes Justine best on clay?" thread.

On clay, I think everyone can agree that there really is noone better than justine. if that's not a premise that you agree with then you don't need to continue. but if justine is best on clay (better than either williams) because on clay the williams' power is neutralized, then is it true that what makes the williams so hard to beat is really just their power? I mean if you take away the Williams power then what else do they really have going for them? I'm not trying to knock Venus or Serena, but if you look at that line of reasoning that Justine is the best on clay coz power is not an issue, but outside of clay, Justine is often third behind Venus and Serena because the power is sometimes too much then really Venus and Serena's games are very one dimensional.
This is not true. Yes the power helps, but you just have to know how to play on each surface. Your game has to change. Unfortunately for the sisters the clay is the surface that they have figured out the least. You have to slide also on clay with neither sister(particularly Venus) does well. You have to get used to the higher bounces and get the timing right. It's all about preference. Since Justine likes to slide around and needs the extra time to prepare her shots, she is more confident. Not to mention that she grew up on clay. Would you also say this about Juan Carlos Ferrero?? The sisters can beat Justine on clay, they just have to be patient. Justine has to find a way to compete on hard and grass, where there are TRUE dominant players.
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post #6 of 45 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 10:24 PM
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Winner/UE ratio is key for both sisters. Their power plays into this, because they "go for" their shots, which results in a fair number of errors. Clay magnifies this because the slow surface makes it harder for them to hit clean winners, esp. against someone as quick about the court as Justine, so if they're not patient and willing to hit a few extra balls until they can force an advantage, the UE's mount up and at the end of the day, Justine makes them pay!


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post #7 of 45 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shap_half
Ok, here's a thought that kinda bounce off that whole, "What makes Justine best on clay?" thread.

On clay, I think everyone can agree that there really is noone better than justine. if that's not a premise that you agree with then you don't need to continue. but if justine is best on clay (better than either williams) because on clay the williams' power is neutralized, then is it true that what makes the williams so hard to beat is really just their power? I mean if you take away the Williams power then what else do they really have going for them? I'm not trying to knock Venus or Serena, but if you look at that line of reasoning that Justine is the best on clay coz power is not an issue, but outside of clay, Justine is often third behind Venus and Serena because the power is sometimes too much then really Venus and Serena's games are very one dimensional.
My friend . I'm always saying this, it is about power. Take the power away and Justine is the best.

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post #8 of 45 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Fool
My friend . I'm always saying this, it is about power. Take the power away and Justine is the best.
Nope...power is part of the equation, but not ALL of it.

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post #9 of 45 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 10:31 PM
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I Think its more of a motivation to play on a certain surface.
I dont think its power or anything. Its the way u like the surface.
Aparently I dont think Justine is winning with no power on her game, Its actually she adjusted her game to have more power to be more succesfull, Look at her serve speeds!!!!

I dont really believed that a player is better on this or that surface. I believed its the way a player feel comfortably on that surface. If you grew up on that surface then your more ease to play there.

See pierce as an example, she uses her power to win the French. I dont think she is a great mover.

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post #10 of 45 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 10:32 PM
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Justine has also turned herself into quite a power player, not as much as the big hitters (Venus, Serena, Lindsay, Jennifer), but she would definitely be hurting on the clay without her power as well.

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post #11 of 45 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QUEENLINDSAY
I Think its more of a motivation to play on a certain surface.
I dont think its power or anything. Its the way u like the surface.
Aparently I dont think Justine is winning with no power on her game, Its actually she adjusted her game to have more power to be more succesfull, Look at her serve speeds!!!!

I dont really believed that a player is better on this or that surface. I believed its the way a player feel comfortably on that surface. If you grew up on that surface then your more ease to play there.

See pierce as an example, she uses her power to win the French. I dont think she is a great mover.
I Agree.
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post #12 of 45 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QUEENLINDSAY
I Think its more of a motivation to play on a certain surface.
I dont think its power or anything. Its the way u like the surface.
Aparently I dont think Justine is winning with no power on her game, Its actually she adjusted her game to have more power to be more succesfull, Look at her serve speeds!!!!

I dont really believed that a player is better on this or that surface. I believed its the way a player feel comfortably on that surface. If you grew up on that surface then your more ease to play there.

See pierce as an example, she uses her power to win the French. I dont think she is a great mover.
Exactly....Justine prefers clay, while the sisters like hardcourts better. They have shown that they can play with and beat ANYBODY on ANY surface....so it ain´t about power anymore.

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post #13 of 45 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandabou
Nope...power is part of the equation, but not ALL of it.
a large percentage mind.....

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post #14 of 45 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Fool
My friend . I'm always saying this, it is about power. Take the power away and Justine is the best.
k so take Justine's shots away and what does she have?

i reckon it's a stupid point really.
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post #15 of 45 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Fool
a large percentage mind.....
But who shouldn´t she be losing to Kim( specially), Jen, Lindsay, etc too then?! All of them are as if not more powerful than either sister, no?!

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