Tennis fans cheated out of natural progression of champions by sudden retirements - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 10:07 AM Thread Starter
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Tennis fans cheated out of natural progression of champions by sudden retirements

Okay, this thread is just an extension of the discussion I had with my friend yesterday who knows a LOT more about tennis, and sports in general, than me. We were talking about the constant withdrawal from tournaments of the Williams sisters with injuries and how it affects the tour. My friend was of the opinion that, as long as the sisters come back to play for some extended duration eventually, it doesn't affect the tour that much.He says, as long as the recent champions of the tour (Justine and Clijsters) are given an opportunity to play against the slumping but always dangerous previous champions of the tour (Serena, Venus, Jennifer, Lindsay), then the tour would have a natural progression of champions.

He thinks most sports follow the same set of scripts and one of the most important plots in these scripts is the "former-champion-in-the-twilights-of-her-career vs an-upcomer-pretender-to-the-throne" matches. So, that's why he is very critical of Martina Hingis, who he thinks retired from the tour just when she figured out she is not the number one girl on the tour anymore. He says she was a "coward" (his words and I think that's harsh) for not playing against the big babes when they were just about to ascend to the throne. He thinks this created a void in the tour and did tennis a greater disservice b/c it removed a slight bit of credibility from the next set of champions/dominators of the tour.

I have to admit I had to agree with him (which I don't like to do) in the end, do you? Do you believe Martina's sudden retirement did tennis a greater disservice than the constant withdrawal of the sisters?
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post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 10:53 AM
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no because martina's retirement was caused by injuries...

A single flow'r he sent me, since we met./All tenderly his messenger he chose;
Deep-hearted, pure, with scented dew still wet - One perfect rose.
I knew the language of the floweret;/'My fragile leaves,' it said, 'his heart enclose.'
Love long has taken for his amulet/One perfect rose.
Why is it no one ever sent me yet/One perfect limousine, do you suppose?
Ah no, it's always just my luck to get/One perfect rose.
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post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moby
no because martina's retirement was caused by injuries...

Cause doesn't matter.
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post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoguet
Cause doesn't matter.
It does if you want to call her a coward for retiring.
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post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 11:41 AM
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But I don't agree with that anyway. Hingis passed the torch long before her retirement.
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post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 11:48 AM
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What's this "scripts" and "plots" business? That might apply to fake sports like World Wrestling Entertainment. It has nothing to do with real sports like tennis. There is no responsibility on players to continue beyond their prime unless they do so out of sheer enjoyment of the game. If they want to continue, let 'em. If they want to go out on a high note like Graf and Sampras, that's also fine. In Marti's case, she didn't have a lot of choice, since she is injured.

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post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 11:58 AM
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I sort of see the point. There wasn't a 'changing of the guard' moment with Hingis and the Williams sisters - no moment like Graf's first Wimbledon title in 1987 d. Navratilova or Navratilova's last Wimbledon final loss to Conchita Martinez, nor even a gradual fading away as with Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario - we just lost Hingis unexpectedly. That said, it's clearly not her fault that she picked up a chronic injury, nor should she be expected to play on just to provide more emotional matches.
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post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 12:52 PM
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Your friend is some thinker ! Now, Marti is guilty than the others can't play an attractive tennis . and she should ignore her healt and come back to entertain him . Very smart !
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post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 01:02 PM
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i dont see why ppl call martina a coward. even if she had retired cuz she wasnt #1 anymore, i think that says alot about her. she wouldnt settle for anything less. thats a good quality to have. perhaps she felt that she couldnt develop muscles and stuff so she just retired. (what?i'm actually defending maritna???)

who cares anyway?she has millions in her pockets now, the bitch.

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post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 01:03 PM
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martina could play if she wanted to

its not her injuries that is stopping her

she doesnt want to be a perrenial quarter-finalist/ semi-finalist, she wants to be the champion all the time, thats what she's used to. she wont be content with less

i mean, i like her and everything, but she was a very bad loser (french open 99 is one example)
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post #11 of 43 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VCR
i dont see why ppl call martina a coward. even if she had retired cuz she wasnt #1 anymore, i think that says alot about her. she wouldnt settle for anything less. thats a good quality to have. perhaps she felt that she couldnt develop muscles and stuff so she just retired. (what?i'm actually defending maritna???)

who cares anyway?she has millions in her pockets now, the bitch.
tennis shouldnt be about winning. it should be about competing and trying your best.

if u give up something because ur not getting ur own way all the time, it doesnt say very much for u as a person

i'm not bashing martina in any way and i'd love for her to come back..................which is quite possible
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post #12 of 43 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 01:08 PM
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For that one example, her fans could name innumerable examples of her perfect good cheer upon losing. For instance please recall her losing to Serena Williams at the U.S.O. Even Serena praised Martina for her friendilness after the loss. That's just one example. There are many many more.
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post #13 of 43 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 01:12 PM
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For God's sake!!! Martina H has stated on NUMEROUS occasions that she cannot put the required effort into training or playing matches because her feet cause her too much pain. She has come to the decision that rather than continuing to play through pain and risk further and more serious injury she must retire from the game. She has said over and over again that she would not want to play when she is unable to give 100% and that she could not stand to play under 100% and lose to players she would otherwise beat.

Anyone who CONTINUES to blindly make dumb ass statements like 'she could come back if she wanted to...' is actually making the statement 'Martina is a liar' which is a whole other debate for which there is no proof.
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post #14 of 43 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 01:14 PM
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This is pretty flawed thinking on your friends part. It assumes that Hingis did NOT have injuries. She did. How does your friend know that she didn't? Is he/she a doctor who has examined Hingis? Her retirement was not of her own choosing.

It also assumes that the torch has passed on to the Williams sisters. Right now, it looks like the torch is in the hands of the Belgian sisters, not the Williams sisters. Venus, in particular, appears to have had a very brief vogue. But the fact is, Hingis played the Williams dead even,16-16 in head to head career stats. She only began to lose regularly to them because of her injuries. But Hingis' defeat of Serena Williams twice in a row in early 2001 and her shallacing of Venus 6-1, 6-1 in the semi-finals of the Australian Open 2001, a victory coming after Venus had already come into her own, proved that Hingis was a match for the Williams sisters, if she had her mobitlity. She was no match for them without it.
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post #15 of 43 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2004, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eta psi
Okay, this thread is just an extension of the discussion I had with my friend yesterday who knows a LOT more about tennis, and sports in general, than me...
...apparently he doesn't know much at all about anything...even ignoring the injury (which is stupid in itself) Martina had already been overtaken before she retired...there is absolutely no onus on any player to continue competing when they don't want to...it wouldn't have been doing tennis much of a service for Martina to drag her damaged body around the world humiliating herself for the sake of your dickhead of a friend...
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