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post #1516 of 1552 (permalink) Old Nov 6th, 2013, 08:50 AM
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Re: Pac 12

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Originally Posted by fantic View Post
Why are you quoting College 1st team when I'm talking about recruiting Trojans got BETTER AT college that's why they made 1st team imo. But still, Ahn won Pac 12, Gibbs won NCAA twice, and they won the Team NCAA as well. Mal and Tan too of course. Krista too.
Robin? Wasn't she #1 recruit in her class(or Trice). Cal? They do get the best foreigners
So you're saying that USC signs ordinary tennis players and makes them elite tennis players, no?

How could that be
Especially, when TRN lists USC as ranked #2 for 2011
http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/article.asp?id=1135
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post #1517 of 1552 (permalink) Old Nov 6th, 2013, 03:16 PM
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Re: Pac 12

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So you're saying that USC signs ordinary tennis players and makes them elite tennis players, no?

How could that be
Especially, when TRN lists USC as ranked #2 for 2011
http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/article.asp?id=1135
I'm talking individually, not a class as a whole

Sabs lost to Gibbs in 2 at the National. Tsay was better known than DeSimone in juniors. It's so obvious I don't know why I'm explaining this to you. Did you know Sabs before she went to college?

Last edited by fantic; Nov 6th, 2013 at 03:45 PM.
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post #1518 of 1552 (permalink) Old Nov 6th, 2013, 03:22 PM
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Re: Pac 12

Let's cite another example. Ahn & Gibbs played at Carson WTA 2009. Sabs did not. (Nelson did play and defeated Baltacha)
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post #1519 of 1552 (permalink) Old Nov 6th, 2013, 08:29 PM
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Re: Pac 12

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I'm talking individually, not a class as a whole

Sabs lost to Gibbs in 2 at the National. Tsay was better known than DeSimone in juniors. It's so obvious I don't know why I'm explaining this to you.
At NCAA, Sabs lost to Gibbs in 2 and DeSimone loses to Tsay.

SINGLES
1) No. 13 Nicole Gibbs (STAN) d. No. 2 Sabrina Santamaria (USC) 7-6 (3), 6-2
2) No. 9 Danielle Lao (USC) d. No. 25 Kristie Ahn (STAN) 6-4, 2-6, 7-5
3) No. 27 Zoe Scandalis (USC) d. No. 14 Krista Hardebeck (STAN) 6-3, 7-6 (5)
4) No. 103 Stacey Tan (STAN) d. Giuliana Olmos (USC) 6-2, 6-2
5) No. 92 Ellen Tsay (STAN) d. Gabriella DeSimone (USC) 5-7, 7-5, 6-3
6) Kaitlyn Christian (USC) d. Natalie Dillon (STAN) 6-3, 6-1
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post #1520 of 1552 (permalink) Old Nov 6th, 2013, 10:12 PM
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Re: Pac 12

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Let's cite another example. Ahn & Gibbs played at Carson WTA 2009. Sabs did not. (Nelson did play and defeated Baltacha)
I get your point. Honestly, it is a bit redundant.

My point is this...
There are other factors why a player develops at the college level more so than at the junior level (aside from going to USC, which seems to be your point).
Ellen Tsay touched upon this subject matter saying that certain players thrive at the collegiate level.

1. Economics
Perhaps college provides a level playing field for some players to get more exposure and opportunities to play the big tournaments or play seeded players and teams.
At the junior level, economics may place a ceiling on such opportunities.
Sabs got to travel a lot this summer at those World University games.
I am sure those opportunities weren’t available when she was in high school.
Despoina Vogasari chose to go to U of H and that has allowed her to play the Pro Circuit here in the US, as oppose to the limited matches she can play in Greece.

2. Player Development
Most of player development opportunities are because of having a support group in a team environment and coaching staff. Not all junior players can afford coaches and some rely on parent coaches or friends of family so this is somewhat an extension of economics.
Having a system in play to track a players schedule, work-outs, matches, and tournament play results in more opportunities.
Without this system, a player may forget to register to get a W/C entry at the US Open.

3. Academic Challenges
Playing for the school might allow professors to give the players some consideration but that doesn't change the academic requirements.
Some of the elite junior players have been taking online courses or been home school, so its an adjustment to attend classes and still put those hours on the court, especially with a lot of studying to do. Some colleges have more academic challenges than others. Ahn skipped Indoors because of her classes. Meanwhile, a bus-load of players from USC and UCLA are in New York.

4. Turning Pro vs. College Degree
If a player, plans to do her best to advance to the pro level then that has a lot to do with their development. If their goal is to get a Stanford degree and get a good job (like Stacey Tan) then at some point they will lose to other players, who try to advance their games at the Pro Circuit (like Brianna Morgan). Someone mentioned that most of the Cal players, their end goal was to get the tennis scholarship.

5. Different Mindset: Team vs. Individual
At the junior level, it’s a different mind-set than at the collegiate level, where team is first. Lauren Embree touched upon this subject that she has to refocus back to when she was playing juniors in order to succeed at the pro level. Some players thrive at the team is first concept and play better at duals and team tournaments than at individual tournaments (like Embre and Barte).


I am just saying there are a lot of factors that contribute to how a player develops in college, which is independent upon their success at the junior level.
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post #1521 of 1552 (permalink) Old Nov 6th, 2013, 10:39 PM
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Re: Pac 12

Well thought out.
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post #1522 of 1552 (permalink) Old Nov 7th, 2013, 03:47 AM
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Re: Pac 12

Your 'valient' effort trying to sound naive and ideal can't escape the stark fact that recruiting is paramount in college sports, especially tennis which is really an individual sport. Else why does Stanford recruit no.1s in the nation? You think Gibbs, Ahn, Hardebeck, those junior superstars got loads better at College? At the end of the day, it's the player herself that decides the match..and when all is said and done, talent is a major decider.
And nice try digging at other 3 schools in your post Nobody believes Stanford boycotted because of study when they played indoors before...and lost

I know, it's getting stale, so won't post more on this topic. Can't Stanford recruit 5 stars, relinquishing the recruiting monopoly, and try to win the NCAA? If they are so good...
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post #1523 of 1552 (permalink) Old Nov 7th, 2013, 06:20 AM
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Re: Pac 12

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Originally Posted by tie_breaker View Post
At NCAA, Sabs lost to Gibbs in 2 and DeSimone loses to Tsay.

SINGLES
1) No. 13 Nicole Gibbs (STAN) d. No. 2 Sabrina Santamaria (USC) 7-6 (3), 6-2
2) No. 9 Danielle Lao (USC) d. No. 25 Kristie Ahn (STAN) 6-4, 2-6, 7-5
3) No. 27 Zoe Scandalis (USC) d. No. 14 Krista Hardebeck (STAN) 6-3, 7-6 (5)
4) No. 103 Stacey Tan (STAN) d. Giuliana Olmos (USC) 6-2, 6-2
5) No. 92 Ellen Tsay (STAN) d. Gabriella DeSimone (USC) 5-7, 7-5, 6-3
6) Kaitlyn Christian (USC) d. Natalie Dillon (STAN) 6-3, 6-1
That was my whole point: based on their junior reputation, Gibbs amd Tsay should win:Sabs and Gabi beating them was a triumph of Trojan program

And what? Lauren and Hilary are slam winners, both won Waatc, and Hilary won 4 dbls slams. And Lauren was another junior elite player who played FO.
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post #1524 of 1552 (permalink) Old Nov 7th, 2013, 09:03 PM
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Re: Pac 12

There is a football game tonight.

UPDATE
The Cardinal won in this high visibility game. During half-time they recognized the women's team for its contribution to winning the Director's cup, and its National Championship run.

The high profile success of the football team, should have some positive impact on other sports including tennis. K.Ahn often has her football playing cheering sections. They behave properly, but I'm thinking they have to be a little bit of an intimidation factor too.

Well congratulations to the whole football team, tt was a team effort, but Skov, Gaffney, Hogan, and the coaching staff can get an extra half kudo.

Last edited by 2nd_serve; Nov 8th, 2013 at 03:10 PM.
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post #1525 of 1552 (permalink) Old Nov 8th, 2013, 03:53 PM
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Re: Pac 12

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Originally Posted by 2nd_serve View Post
There is a football game tonight.

UPDATE
The Cardinal won in this high visibility game. During half-time they recognized the women's team for its contribution to winning the Director's cup, and its National Championship run.

The high profile success of the football team, should have some positive impact on other sports including tennis. K.Ahn often has her football playing cheering sections. They behave properly, but I'm thinking they have to be a little bit of an intimidation factor too.

Well congratulations to the whole football team, tt was a team effort, but Skov, Gaffney, Hogan, and the coaching staff can get an extra half kudo.
I think this presents itself as an incentive for the 3 freshman to carry the torch...too bad Gibbsy was playing her 2nd round match at Captiva Island instead of being at the game. Hardebeck always seem to be all smiles!

https://vine.co/v/hIgxF9YPrj5


https://twitter.com/CarolZhao95/stat...134720/photo/1
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post #1526 of 1552 (permalink) Old Nov 9th, 2013, 01:46 AM
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Re: Pac 12

Jkc semis
TAN CHIANG
PATRASC DE SIMONE
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post #1527 of 1552 (permalink) Old Nov 13th, 2013, 09:46 PM
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Re: Pac 12

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Originally Posted by gouci View Post
Continued because threads over 1,000 replies may get moved and the other Pac 10 thread was almost there.
Started a new thread for 2014
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post #1528 of 1552 (permalink) Old Jan 7th, 2014, 05:28 PM
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Re: Pac 12

Jen Brady crushes Loeb and Santamaria back-to-back in the 25k Vero Beach QD
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post #1529 of 1552 (permalink) Old Jan 7th, 2014, 10:19 PM
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Re: Pac 12

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Originally Posted by CTSEMT View Post
Jen Brady crushes Loeb and Santamaria back-to-back in the 25k Vero Beach QD
Wow, nice wins for Brady! I'm liking UCLA's lineup more and more. Stella is going to have a tough time figuring what position to play the girls in.
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post #1530 of 1552 (permalink) Old Jan 7th, 2014, 10:47 PM
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Re: Pac 12

I didn't see that coming...those are big wins

That kind of shifts the power over to UCLA
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