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post #16 of 44 (permalink) Old Mar 13th, 2012, 10:12 PM
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Re: Opening post thread - for tournament managers only!

We need a new rule similar to the Suicide Tennis rule.

Quote:
Don't delete your post or else you will be DISQUALIFIED!
Deleting a post is the easiest way of cheating in Tipping. Just make 2 posts with 2 different winners and delete the wrong one after the match is finished...

That means that we also need a moderator to monitor the thread.

TT Singles: #66 CH: #2 Titles: Eastbourne '16 Finals: Luxembourg '12, Miami '13, Carlsbad '13, YEC '13 SF: Dallas '12, US Open '12, Indian Wells '13, Cincinnati '13, New Haven '13, Tokyo '13
TT Doubles: #7 CH: #6 Titles: Dallas '12, Brussels '13, Cincinnati '13, US Open '14, New Haven '15, Hong Kong '15, Moscow '15 Finals: Seoul '12, Brisbane '13, Monterrey '15, Stuttgart '15, YEC '15 (GS) SF: Wimbledon '12, US Open '12 RR: YEC '13
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post #17 of 44 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 2012, 09:40 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Opening post thread - for tournament managers only!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederik View Post
Deleting a post is the easiest way of cheating in Tipping. Just make 2 posts with 2 different winners and delete the wrong one after the match is finished...

That means that we also need a moderator to monitor the thread.
Honestly I've never deleted a post in this forum myself, not just in tipping but not in any thread, so I don't know if this cheating would actually work, but I'll take your word for it.

However, a player is suspicious only if (s)he posts two different posts, which happens very rarely. A simple solution to this would be if the moderator would just save pages of the forum (File -> Save as...) before the matches start and eventually afterwards if someone sends a late pick. Later on you just check if there are no missing posts in the actual forum pages and that's it.
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post #18 of 44 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 2012, 01:02 PM
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Re: Opening post thread - for tournament managers only!

Just take Cheda 16.17 as an example.

He posted his picks:

A
B
C
D

After that he quoted his own post and later deleted the original post. I'm pretty sure that 95% of the people wouldn't notice a difference if the picks in the quote said (a,e,c,d) instead of (a,b,c,d).

I know that he didn't cheat because I also read the quote before he deleted his original post.

TT Singles: #66 CH: #2 Titles: Eastbourne '16 Finals: Luxembourg '12, Miami '13, Carlsbad '13, YEC '13 SF: Dallas '12, US Open '12, Indian Wells '13, Cincinnati '13, New Haven '13, Tokyo '13
TT Doubles: #7 CH: #6 Titles: Dallas '12, Brussels '13, Cincinnati '13, US Open '14, New Haven '15, Hong Kong '15, Moscow '15 Finals: Seoul '12, Brisbane '13, Monterrey '15, Stuttgart '15, YEC '15 (GS) SF: Wimbledon '12, US Open '12 RR: YEC '13

Last edited by Frederik; Mar 14th, 2012 at 03:04 PM.
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post #19 of 44 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 2012, 02:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Opening post thread - for tournament managers only!

So what you're saying is...
...if I send post #1,
then quote it in post #2
and then delete post #1,
that post #1 will also disappear as quote from post #2
?!

Wow! I never thought you could do that. But having someone monitor the thread 24/7 is not even humanly possible, so I really believe that saving forum pages as websites on your hard drive would be the easiest method of control.
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post #20 of 44 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 2012, 03:04 PM
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Re: Opening post thread - for tournament managers only!

no, the quote doesn't disappear and if it did, it would make (this way of) cheating impossible what I mean is this:

original post was: A,B,C,D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederik View Post
A
B
C
E
I quoted the post but changed the picks. That basically gives me two different sets of picks...

I'm not saying that anybody is going to do this, but Cheda 16.17 pretty much proved that it is possible (even though he didn't cheat).

TT Singles: #66 CH: #2 Titles: Eastbourne '16 Finals: Luxembourg '12, Miami '13, Carlsbad '13, YEC '13 SF: Dallas '12, US Open '12, Indian Wells '13, Cincinnati '13, New Haven '13, Tokyo '13
TT Doubles: #7 CH: #6 Titles: Dallas '12, Brussels '13, Cincinnati '13, US Open '14, New Haven '15, Hong Kong '15, Moscow '15 Finals: Seoul '12, Brisbane '13, Monterrey '15, Stuttgart '15, YEC '15 (GS) SF: Wimbledon '12, US Open '12 RR: YEC '13
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post #21 of 44 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 2012, 03:05 PM
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Re: Opening post thread - for tournament managers only!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ma re View Post
Wow! I never thought you could do that. But having someone monitor the thread 24/7 is not even humanly possible, so I really believe that saving forum pages as websites on your hard drive would be the easiest method of control.
Moderators can see if a post has been deleted, though. (Will appear something like 'deleted post by ma re')

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post #22 of 44 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 2012, 03:06 PM
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Re: Opening post thread - for tournament managers only!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamR03A View Post
Moderators can see if a post has been deleted, though. (Will appear something like 'deleted post by ma re')
that's what I thought, too.

TT Singles: #66 CH: #2 Titles: Eastbourne '16 Finals: Luxembourg '12, Miami '13, Carlsbad '13, YEC '13 SF: Dallas '12, US Open '12, Indian Wells '13, Cincinnati '13, New Haven '13, Tokyo '13
TT Doubles: #7 CH: #6 Titles: Dallas '12, Brussels '13, Cincinnati '13, US Open '14, New Haven '15, Hong Kong '15, Moscow '15 Finals: Seoul '12, Brisbane '13, Monterrey '15, Stuttgart '15, YEC '15 (GS) SF: Wimbledon '12, US Open '12 RR: YEC '13
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post #23 of 44 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 2012, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Opening post thread - for tournament managers only!

Fred, call me stupid but I'm really not following you.

Are you talking about editing post #1 after you've quoted it in post #2?
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post #24 of 44 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 2012, 04:46 PM
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Re: Opening post thread - for tournament managers only!

No. I'm talking about having different picks in the quote and in the quoted post.

TT Singles: #66 CH: #2 Titles: Eastbourne '16 Finals: Luxembourg '12, Miami '13, Carlsbad '13, YEC '13 SF: Dallas '12, US Open '12, Indian Wells '13, Cincinnati '13, New Haven '13, Tokyo '13
TT Doubles: #7 CH: #6 Titles: Dallas '12, Brussels '13, Cincinnati '13, US Open '14, New Haven '15, Hong Kong '15, Moscow '15 Finals: Seoul '12, Brisbane '13, Monterrey '15, Stuttgart '15, YEC '15 (GS) SF: Wimbledon '12, US Open '12 RR: YEC '13
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post #25 of 44 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 2012, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Opening post thread - for tournament managers only!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ma re View Post
Are you talking about editing post #1 after you've quoted it in post #2?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederik View Post
No. I'm talking about having different picks in the quote and in the quoted post.
But isn't that the same thing? How can the quote and the quoted post have different picks if you don't edit the original at some point?
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post #26 of 44 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 2012, 05:11 PM
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Re: Opening post thread - for tournament managers only!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ma re View Post
Ehdbdjenehed d
Just edit the quote before making the post...

TT Singles: #66 CH: #2 Titles: Eastbourne '16 Finals: Luxembourg '12, Miami '13, Carlsbad '13, YEC '13 SF: Dallas '12, US Open '12, Indian Wells '13, Cincinnati '13, New Haven '13, Tokyo '13
TT Doubles: #7 CH: #6 Titles: Dallas '12, Brussels '13, Cincinnati '13, US Open '14, New Haven '15, Hong Kong '15, Moscow '15 Finals: Seoul '12, Brisbane '13, Monterrey '15, Stuttgart '15, YEC '15 (GS) SF: Wimbledon '12, US Open '12 RR: YEC '13
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post #27 of 44 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 2012, 05:18 PM
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Re: Opening post thread - for tournament managers only!

Let me show you what I mean. This is my original post:

Victoria Azarenka
Kim Clijsters
Caroline Wozniacki
Na Li
Francesca Schiavone
Bojana Jovanovski
Jelena Jankovic
Agnieszka Radwanska
Anna Tatishvili
Daniela Hantuchova
Shuai Peng
Anastasiya Yakimova
Pauline Parmentier
Sofia Arvidsson
Monica Niculescu
Julia Goerges
Yanina Wickmayer
Eleni Daniilidou
Petra Cetkovska
Tsvetana Pironkova
Olga Govortsova
Elena Baltacha
Mona Barthel
Simona Halep
Flavia Pennetta
Iveta Benesova
Marina Erakovic
Anabel Medina Garrigues
Petra Martic
Lucie Safarova
Arantxa Rus
Alberta Brianti

TT Singles: #66 CH: #2 Titles: Eastbourne '16 Finals: Luxembourg '12, Miami '13, Carlsbad '13, YEC '13 SF: Dallas '12, US Open '12, Indian Wells '13, Cincinnati '13, New Haven '13, Tokyo '13
TT Doubles: #7 CH: #6 Titles: Dallas '12, Brussels '13, Cincinnati '13, US Open '14, New Haven '15, Hong Kong '15, Moscow '15 Finals: Seoul '12, Brisbane '13, Monterrey '15, Stuttgart '15, YEC '15 (GS) SF: Wimbledon '12, US Open '12 RR: YEC '13
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post #28 of 44 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 2012, 05:23 PM
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Re: Opening post thread - for tournament managers only!

and this is my 2nd post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederik View Post
Victoria Azarenka
Kim Clijsters
Caroline Wozniacki
Na Li
Francesca Schiavone
Bojana Jovanovski
Jelena Jankovic
Agnieszka Radwanska
Anna Tatishvili
Daniela Hantuchova
Shuai Peng
Anastasiya Yakimova
Pauline Parmentier
Sofia Arvidsson
Monica Niculescu
Julia Goerges
Yanina Wickmayer
Eleni Daniilidou
Petra Cetkovska
Tsvetana Pironkova
Olga Govortsova
Elena Baltacha
Anne Keothavong
Simona Halep
Flavia Pennetta
Iveta Benesova
Marina Erakovic
Anabel Medina Garrigues
Petra Martic
Lucie Safarova
Arantxa Rus
Irina Falconi
I also changed Barthel to Keothavong without highlighting it. That gives me the chance to delete the first post if Keothavong wins the match.

TT Singles: #66 CH: #2 Titles: Eastbourne '16 Finals: Luxembourg '12, Miami '13, Carlsbad '13, YEC '13 SF: Dallas '12, US Open '12, Indian Wells '13, Cincinnati '13, New Haven '13, Tokyo '13
TT Doubles: #7 CH: #6 Titles: Dallas '12, Brussels '13, Cincinnati '13, US Open '14, New Haven '15, Hong Kong '15, Moscow '15 Finals: Seoul '12, Brisbane '13, Monterrey '15, Stuttgart '15, YEC '15 (GS) SF: Wimbledon '12, US Open '12 RR: YEC '13
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post #29 of 44 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 2012, 05:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Opening post thread - for tournament managers only!

OK, that makes MUCH more sense! If you had only previously mentioned highlighting and delibaretely omitting highlighting, I would've understood sooner. Oh well...

Yes that might be a problem, but since I'm hearing about it for the first time and I've been playing tipping since 1753 BC (OK, it was 2008 AD) It's probably not so common.

There's no easy solution to this, I guess the moderator has to check and see if the quoted post actually exists whenever (s)he notices that someone posted a quote. I don't know about disqualifying, that may be a bit harsh, but if people think it's not than I'm fine with it (a 10 point deduction penalty would've been enough if you ask me).

Or another idea, that we make it mandatory for players to specify the number of post being quoted; in other words, if I want to quote (i.e. edit) I can only do it by first stating "editing post #273" and after that "change Cibulkova to Penneta" in the next line. That way the moderator could very simply check if post #273 is still there or not.
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post #30 of 44 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 2012, 06:22 PM
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Re: Opening post thread - for tournament managers only!

Another easier solution is to declare that a quoted post is not enough for posting.
We can accept quotations, but all the poster has to post all his picks again, in his new post, not via quoted.
I also think that a deleted post should show something to the moderator.
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